just wanting to get some opinions on how clubs and coaches handle situations when a high school wrestler and or middle school wrestler wants to wrestle little league instead of their school program due some of the following reasons or excuses------disputes w/coaching,progam not being very strong,not good enough to make varsity,short seasons,disliking coach,grades not high enough,and ect.i have heard all of these and know that differ circumstances cause differ scenarios,but im in the belief that little league is to teach the basics for becoming a good high school wrestler and if your a very competitive little league coach a good college wrestler.BUT IVE HEARD SOME STRONG POINTS FROM PARENTS AND GUARDIANS WHO WOULD RATHER THEIR KIDS WRESTLE FOR LITTLE LEAGUE PROGRAMS AND WOULD LIKE OPIONS IN THIS MATTER TO.

Cant say i have ever heard of that. I thought thats what Junior Varsity was for.I take that back ive seen middle school kids do it before but that was because they felt the competion was better for them

All clubs should have a policy of not accepting athletes, who for whatever reason, are not with their school team.

The only problem with this is clubs at that point are dictating parental rights, you are also dictating into a private organization set rules which prevents them from exercising their own rights. I don't know of any HS kids at this point who fall into this category. I do know of a number of MS/JH kids who do. The primary reason has to do with competition, and the opportunity to wrestle at some of the elite national events, which they are prohibited from doing if they are with their school team. I actually see a positive from this, it gets more kids into wrestling, and more mat time for the kids.

We always seem to talk about the drop out rate, often called the burn out rate. Most research shows this starts to come about during the MS/JH years, and even more once in HS. I have challenged for a long time, a lot of that isn't burn out it is the wrestler or parent not being content with being on the JV team because they were beaten out of a varsity spot. Does this mean we do away with varsity competition? No way, there is a natural dropping out of sport, every sport during these years. Sure there is some burn out, but I still contend most has to do with not making a varsity spot.

You want to see more kids participate with their school team, do like a number of other states, and ease the rules that prevent such competition.

Wrestling clubs are private organizations and can accept or deny members as they so choose.


I'm not sure what you mean here but if you are saying it should be up to each club what their policy is, I agree. Just as long as they do the right thing and not allow athletes to be members while their school team is in season.

They need to let kids wrestle both. Forcing advanced kids into Jr. high programs that do nothing for them is not the answer. The current rules actually force them not to wrestle Jr. high if they want to keep improving. We went through it this year.

24/7

The two of us agree. There is more than that at times though, it comes down to some as a philosophical thing. For example, what is the purpose and/or goal of wrestling? And then, which helps provide the best opportunities to reach that purpose, and/or goal.

As can parents choose a different club if they don't like club policy.



Then you are taking away the right of the individual wrestler and preventing their own opportunity at improving. These types of forced rules, are a part of the very reason that some home school parents transfer their children. Again, I am speaking of MS and JH, although I suspect some could use the same argument. There are the Henry Cejudo's for example that simply transfer out of the system entirely and move on. I don't think that weakening the status of Kansas wrestling is the answer to this problem, and I will assure you, if forcing wrestlers to wrestle with their JH or MS programs is what you are suggesting, the status and quality of Kansas wrestling will go down as our wrestlers will have even less of an opportunity to wrestle the nations best, and thus not get the improvement they need.

For some the JH and MS programs are the way to go, for some of those programs, there are great coaches, and great benefits, but that is not the answer for all kids. When you state this, you indicate that every child who wrestled at USJOC, Cliff Keen Kick Off Classic, and the upcoming Tulsa Nationals among others were wrong to do so. I challenge those kids, especially in the ages we speak of, get better because they wrestle the best in the country. Them getting better strengthens the HS programs and thus opportunities for Kansas HS wrestlers.

Maybe the school's policy need to change to allow the wrestlers the opportunity to wrestle in the National tournaments. I know the kids in our club are torn every year as to what dirrection to choose.

Hart,

It's not a school policy, it is a KSHAA rule that kids cannot participate in the kid's club during the middle school or high school season. It applies to all sports. I think the purpose is to keep Jr/Sr High coaches and kids from exceeding the allowable practice hours and competitions. I also believe we may be the only state with this rule.

We elected to do JR High wrestling, and I am glad we did, although I think it is an individual question. There is a notion that the kids owe their participation to the middle school programs. If this is true, then I believe that the school owes the kids adequate coaching and reasonable opportunities for competition. Some middle schools do not offer these to the kids.

I think that they switch to little league because there are batting cages in the wrestling rooms

... I cringe everytime someone refers to what we do as, Little League!

I'm with Nick!

How can this topic be surfacing at this time when middle schoolers have just started recently. Now it seems to me that this sounds more like an individual trying to prohibit or exclude
a particular youngster from freedom of choice, is that what's going on here? Are we talking middle or high school? Because in my opinion it really doesn't matter much who, when or where a wrestler wants to go and participate. Does District II have boundaries? If not then if a kid wants to move to youth wrestling and his former program is still going, then who's to bar him from taht choice?

Some Middle Schools are 4 sport schools and start wrestling following the basketball season. These schools will be starting wrestling in the next couple of weeks, ours included. When middle school wrestling starts, we will quit participating with the club until middle school is over which is shortly before subdistricts. The 3 sport schools have been in middle school wresltling for some time now and will be eligible for "little league" when their middle school season is over.

How can we meet in the middle with KSHAA and let kids wrestle with both J.H.& club? It's not fair to the kids who work so hard 6 to 9 months a year to make them pick. In Lawrence Basketball is king.Only a hand full of kids make the Basketball team and all the kids who dont make it, turn to wrestling for the first time.So for the first month the coaches are at a challenge to show the 80% of new kids how to do everything.Then the kids who have wrestled for some time are not learning or having good practice partners.The Basketball teams are taking the best kids and have good hard games.Good wrestlers are pinning first year wrestlers.When you have to pick The kick off in tulsa or a local J.H. tournament and might get 1or2 matches what do you do?On the other hand kids want to show their class mates that they are goog at something and if thay wrestle club they can't.So what do we do?

Life is all about choices and this is just one of them. I for one think the child and his parents need to decide which is better for them.

If a child decides that Kids Federation is the best move because of comptetion then that is a decision they make. No one should find fault with a child trying to better themselves. It would be best if parents and High School coach talk before hand and get the views for each side.

I believe once Junior High wrestling starts then the quality goes down in Kids Fed as well because wrestlers are in Jr High for the most part. I would like to think that the National tournament would recognize this and not have them during the season. Hey it was their choice to put it during the season and they are the ones actually wanting the kids to make a choice.

From my point of view- If I had a son at the Jr High age-- well he would wrestle Jr High because it is important (IMO) to keep the school program going as good as you can and start to get kids to realize it is time they start helping other kids become better. It is time to start building a team work theory. It is time for them to start enjoying the work and time they put in over the years. I am not sure how many kids would benefit going to nationals over making friends. If my son was good enough to compete at the national level then a decision would be a bit tougher but there are very few that are that good.

We are told we burn kids out by wrestling to much- we have made efforts to help that- and honestly I am not sure which is right. We have never wrestled year around so compared to many of you- we shouldn't even be close to burn out but we hear it daily.

There was only one situation where I thought the parents made the right choice in having their son wrestle in the kids program instead of the high school program. That was with a kid who only weighed 85 pounds as a very young Freshman. In his situation, there was no one to practice with (the next size was 130lbs) on the high school team and he benefited from wrestling one more year with kids in his own weight class.

However, in my own opinion, a student and parents need to support the school, not the clubs. Too many times, you see kids pick clubs over school. They say it is because there is more competition. They say that it gives their kids more opportunity and they may actually say it helps the school program. However, what they are actually doing is helping to bring down the school program. Talk to schools with weak wrestling programs and they will tell you it starts a chain reaction that is hard to break. The program gets weak and will loose support from the community and administration. The coaches then struggle to make it stronger but can't because they don't have any support from the community and administration. Kids don't want to go and compete on a team that they "view" as weak so thhe circle just continues......

We are lucky - in our area, we have junior high wrestling first and then junior high basketball. The committed kids will go from the junior high program right into the kids program. My own son even did both (kids wresling and jr. high basketball). He didn't see any tougher action in the kids program than in the jr. high until Districts.

This has been a very hotly debated subject in the past years, not only for wrestling but also for all other sports teams. Even legislation was brought about to help align Kansas with other states in this regard last year...I believe it had to do with swim teams and swim clubs, but would also migrate into all other sports including wrestling as well. It was shot down unanimously by the state legislation last year and anyone correct me if I am wrong at any point in this please, Was it a piece of legislation brought about or was it a petition for legislation. ANYWAY, we as tax paying citizens need to rise up and fight this injustice to our kids and our state as a whole for all sports programs since it seems like the KSHSAA wants to dictate to our youth that we are unable to keep up with the Oklahoma's and the Pennsylvania's by banning club competition coupled with Scholastic competition and thus our student athletes suffer in the process. In numbers maybe in the near future we can make this change, but it would be up to us as voters and the like to take a stand and have our voice heard.

QUOTE FROM SPORTSFANO2: "Just as long as they do the right thing and not alow athletes to be members while their school team is in season."

What is the basis of your post? Are you just trying not to allow
an individual from selecting a youth wrestling club in lieu of
them not participating with their original school team until thay are finished? Where do you come up with this? It is more like punishment not barring. Where is this happening, what club
or school. In my opinion that is probably the most dumbfounded
excuse ever put on this discussion forum. Sir, if you are looking for advice, heres a tip, let things be, allow freedom of choice...who knows this wrestler may turn out to be an asset to your club once qualifiers come around!! In turn, you, him, parents and club all come out winners.

I always try to stay out the fray but find myself getting involved!

I will make this point, that I've made before but I always try to remember, sometimes we get new participants to our forums. By the way, if your new, please read the post about staying positive.

Does an "advanced" wrestler bear any responsibility to others who may be a team mate in the future? As Mom4 suggested, in so many words, often times we have athletes, that through their exclusion on a team, cannot share their knowledge.

I believe what this results in, is the improvement of individuals and not the advancement of others.

Food for thought ... fuel for the fire? You decide!