When we were wrestling with the Republic Co. Kids, we attended several tournaments in Nebraska at Fairbury. There are four things different about Nebraska than Kansas. 1. it is not a students age but grade level 2. the tournament is split between "young ones" and "old ones". 3. the tournaments are run very smooth and are very quick. 4. All of Fairbury's brackets were 4 man round robins with weights being the closest placed in a bracket (kids don't have to worry about making weight unless they gain over 20 pounds in a week). If the weight difference was too large, they were placed in a separate bracket. The biggest difference (and the thing I liked the most) was how they organized the kids. The announcer would call up an age group and all the kids (no matter what weight) would go to the top and sit in the bleachers. Then, a parent would escort that age group down to the mats when it was their turn. Therefore, all kids at the same age wrestled at the same time or waited at matside until it was their turn. When their group was over, the parent or tournament organizer would bring down the next age group and so on. You usually only had to wait 30 minutes between matches and as parents and coaches, you didn't have to worry about watching match numbers or wondering when your child would be up next. If you had young wrestlers, the tournament would start at 8:30 and you were usually done at 12:00. If you had older wrestlers, it started at 1:00 and you were done no later than 4:00. The gym was less crowded, spectators were less cranky and the tournament was run very quick. An added bonus was that they awarded medals to the top four placers . For very young wrestlers that need a little bit of extra encouragement, it was pretty cool when they could take home something just for doing a job well done.

Jim,

This is one of those subjects to which I really don't have a logical reason as to why. Its more a personal thing with me. I LOVE WRESTLING, probably more than 90% of the people involved in our communtiy. Every year I try to schedule more and more events to work, As it is now I've got tournaments every weekend this year plus several on sunday, I've got friday tournaments, and so on and so forth. I'll probably even end up doing freestyle this summer if at all possible.

I grew up for 6 years in the kids program, and not once did I ever attend a split format tournament 2 years of Jr High, and 4 years of High school, My mom and dad hated sitting around all day waiting for me to wrestle 3 or 4 matches, so in many cases they didn't even come and watch me which was okay because I was there for me. I loved being there watching other kids' matches, playing "pogs" which was a big deal back in my kids days. Back then tournaments routinely ran into 5 and 6 pm, now days its a sin in the eyes of parents when their child has to wrestle after 3.

Since I officiate I have to be there the whole day anyway but, I much prefer there to be lots and lots of people there as oppossed to only half, I like the crowd noise, I like the excitement. Every split tournament I have been to like last years district tournament seemed like it was all procedural "get in and get out" with hardly any excitement. Yeah we were done by like 4 or 5. Like I said Jim its just a personal preference, I like to see wrestling remain in its glory of years past, as opposed to just a hobby that some people participate in and get done as fast as possible so they can get home and watch their favorite television show, or catch the football game.

Nigel- you don't have any kids do you?

No, im only 23, but I do have 10 nieces and newphews.

I think we all should consider the split format. If Chanute's tournament this weekend is any indication with about 500 wrestlers, more of us may have to consider the split format. Many of the smaller towns don't have gyms & seating for large participation. Chanute did a great job and are great people to work with! However, I think the split format would work better and be much easier on the workers, officials, families and certainly the wrestlers. Our mat numbers were 33, 69 & 141. We had to wait over 3 hours for our last match, which was worth it, but it probably would have been more enjoyable in the split format.

We have been to many split tournaments and I'm not convinced it will take longer or be harder on the workers. I used to have 2 boys with 8 years difference in age so I speak from considerable experience.

This is my two cents.
Good Wrestling to all!

Like Nigel i grew up in the world of the Kansas extended day tournaments, i coached high school and on sundays novice tournaments and any off saturdays with the open kids, we did basically the 6 am to 6 pm exhausted day routine. Due to a job change i moved to nebraska where i saw my first slotted tournaments, ages and weights at a certain time, wow, we were in and out, kids were happy, parents were happy. The larger tournaments were split and again time was at least cut in half. I have tracked the kids i watched through the years and did not see the drop off of high school wrestlers i saw in kansas. I think we are ignorant not to look for ways to decrease PARENTAL burnout, the true problem.

I live in Nebraska, fairly close to the Kansas border, so we hit both the KS and NEB tournaments. Going to both tournament formats for the last 6 years, I feel that I am in a good position to make an educated decision on this matter. I am also involved in directing a club. In my opinion, the split tournaments are the way to go. We set it up in 2 hour increments, which allows plenty of time to complete the brackets in each age group. This allows some people with plans to not only get their business done, but also watch thier children wrestle. It is not as crowded in the gyms, and I do not believe that it hurts the club finacially. We just finished back to back KS tourneys, and both Saturday and Sunday were extremely long. I have 2 open and 1 novice wrestler, and believe me, the kids, on the days that they were not wreslting, were extremely frustrated and bored. The split sessions allow kids to compete without having to sit in a gym for 8-10 hours. We have 13-14 and 6 and under start at 9am. 7-8 start at 11am. 9-10 start at 1pm and 11-12 start at 3. Wrestling times are moved up if needed, and we usually get done by 4pm. To the people who have kids in 2 divisions, 1 early and 1 late, I guess it doesn't matter to you much, cause you would have been there for the duration anyway. My suggestion is this, maybe a club from KS shoud give it a try and see how it works out. I know a lot of our club parents tend to shy away from the KS tournaments for this very reason. Just my opinion. I was in Atchison this weekend and got to see Bo Purcell wrestle. I've read a lot about him on this site, and it was a treat to see him in person. A very nice balance of speed, knowledge, and power. Good coaching and a nice kid. That's all for my first post. Too bad the Nebraska and Missouri web sites don't have forums like this.

I have only been to 1 tournament this year that has gone past 3:30, I don't think typically its the format of a tournament thats the problem, its the management of said tournament. I know we are all here for the kids but it is my personal opinion that once tournament rules are set into place they should be followed. Here are a few examples.

1st. Many tourneys I've gone to have said "We won't allow entries the day of the tournament"
And sure enough teams so up and enter wrestlers, which means brackets have to be reworked.

2nd. Scratches affecting brackets. Obviously a tournament really can't predict who is going to show up for the tourny even though they've already paid their money. The real issues is like with clubs that go ahead and bracket 5 wrestlers onto an 8-man, then 1 or even 2 guys don't show up and they have to rebracket to a round robin.

3rd. Lack of mat space compared to number of wrestlers. If you have 300 kids, 6 mats should get it done, if you have 425 kids thats not going to cut it (I've seen it done in the past, it doesn't work well).

So here is just a few ways to which tournament directors can keep the traditional format tournament and still keep everyone happy.

1. After determining total number of mats, then set the maximium entrys for the tournament. Aim for less than 85 matches per mat.

2. If a kid does not make weight DO NOT REBRACKET HIM/HER. I know this sounds harsh and they paid money, but we have weight classes for a reason, if weight is a problem have the parents bump him/her to the next one up during registration.

3. And this is a really big helper. Cut weigh in off earlier, if a tourny is supposed to start at 9:30 weigh in should be over by 7:30 at the latest. If a kid isn't there by then, I'm sorry but he/she is a scratch. That gives you 1:00 to 1:30 hrs to do any bracket changes you need to do and that should be plenty of time.

I still say that I enjoyed the tournaments in Nebraska so much more than the Kansas tournaments. I also feel that we "lose" kids who have great protential due to the long weekends. Just because we have always done things one way does not mean we have to keep doing it. I feel that to truly get an idea of whether this is a good idea or not is to take a vote. Every club should ask the wrestlers and/or parents which format they like.

I see one of the problems is allowing too many wrestlers for the # of mats. Why do clubs do this? Yes, you might make more money that day, but in the long run it will hurt your numbers. We have been to tournaments in the past with 500 or so wrestlers and only 6 mats. Some of them last EIGHT HOURS! Some times we've had a 3-4 hour wait for our last matches. If they had a split format they could accomodate the same number of wrestlers with less congestion in the gym. There are also safety/fire code issues to think about. I vote for split format tournaments.

Split tournaments won't help if directors cannot control their greed to make a buck. As you said, the root cause of these problems are tournament directors not limiting the entries to a reasonable level. We had the same problems, for other reasons, back during the late 80's and as a result ran a lot of people off from this sport. The question is, will todays tournament directors take "constructive" criticism and do the right thing for the sport as a whole, or instead run a whole new generation away?

I have not posted in over 8 months. I was called out for being a whiner and crybaby at that time. I guess I did not take that constructive criticism too well. A couple people were actually making that comment about me. I came to the realization that there was probably more truth to that characterization than I wanted to admit to. I decided that with my addictive personality it would be better for me to stop posting which I did for a long time. This issue though is one that has probably been my main one over the last several years and has proven to be too tempting. I have decided to post on it.

I am encouraged that more people seem to be for this concept. I am also very encouraged that Mill Valley made the decision to go to a split tournament. Will, I commend your people for making that decision. Most of my other thoughts are stated earlier in this thread and would just be a rehash so I am going to stop now. Basically if we can reduce the time in tournaments, I believe would help promote our sport in Kansas and make it more attractive for more families to participate.

Welcome back Vince! Good to see you're back off the wagon so to speak.
Could have done without knowing you were a hoosker fan though!

Thank you,sportsfan02. I was not kidding about that addictive personality. I was really a little nervous typing that post this morning. I am going to have to try to really limit myself with my posting.

I am a Husker Fan since I was born in Nebraska and my Dad raised me on Nebraska football.Up until the last few years it was an easy task to be a Nebraska football fan. It is mainly for football that I am a Nebraska fan.

Welcome Back Vince! You know I have to limit Coach Ed's time, too. I just commented a few weeks ago that Vince's wife must be limiting his post time as well. Anyway, good to hear from you.

Ms. Jenni

Hey Vince welcome back, it was good seeing you in Kansas City earlier in the year, tell that boy of yours to keep up the good work.

Well so far the reaction from some of my old forum friends has been positive. Thanks to Jenni and Mike for also welcoming me back.

Jenni, you are on the money my wife definitely prefers that I don't post. I finally got the nerve to tell her last night that I had fell of the wagon yesterday. Best of luck to you Coach Ed and your teams this year.

Mike, I also enjoyed seeing you again in KC. I wasn't able to stay at the tournament long myself since we were having a party for my daughter. The highlights for me were Nathan's match with Bailey and watching those two talented wrestlers from Pittsburg. Nathan is ready to be a good high school wrestler right now. Jacob ended up having a decent day but I only saw his loss to Casey Lewis. That was a very tough draw for Jacob's first match of the season. Casey just had Jacob overmatched with strength and speed that day. I think Jacob knows he has some work to do to try and close that gap. That is the best thing I like about sports though (to realize that you have to do extra hard work to catch and pass a competitor and then to go out and do that very thing). Jacob has done that before, maybe he can do the same thing over the next few years with Casey too.

Jenni, my wife would be saying way too long and so off the topic. So I will close by getting back on the subject. If we could get a few more split tournaments, I think it would be a positive thing and very appreciated by many wrestlers and their parents.