And what, call it JV state?

how many sophomores really compete at 14 U... it should be real close to ZERO.

I like your idea….my son just turned 10; even though this is his 4th year of wrestling, I can only get him to practice on Monday nights. He has piano lessons on Tuesday and Thursday and would rather be playing his game boy on Wednesday night. I don’t think it is fair to put him in a bracket with the club wrestlers who go hard three nights a week and work there buts off in the summer. Can we make a separate division for him too? What would we call this division?

If we drill this thing down enough everyone will walk away with a plaque. Wouldn’t that be great?

Hee Hee

... or you could just buy a plaque!

Tiger,
Question. Do you use that nickname because you resemble the famous tiger, Tony?

I have never stated that there shouldn't be a state offered for 16U or JV or other high school wrestlers. I am fine with more opportunities. My position is that 7th and 8th graders should not have to wrestle high school wrestlers because high school wrestlers have an unfair training advantage and it is very difficult, perhaps impossible for most, to even begin to level the playing field. As an 8th grader you only have the USAW Kids state tournament to participate in to win a state title. As a high schooler you have the KSHSAA tournament. Not all kids make it to USAW state just like not all high school wrestlers make it to the KSHSAA tournament but they all had the opportunity.

In states where 7th and 8th graders win state they are allowed to participate all season long in practice, duals and tournaments with high school kids, this definitely levels the playing field. I would love it if Kansas were that way but it is illegal by KSHSAA rules for 7th and 8th graders to participate in high school wrestling practices, duals, and tournaments.

I have NEVER advocated reducing opportunities to wrestle. I am just opposed to mixing high school kids with middle school kids at the USAW Kids state tournament. My suggestion would be to say if you were in high school then you wrestle 16U.

im kinda half and half on this partly because i will still be able to wrestle 14u next year to and im in 8th grade now haha but the do get an unfair training advantage but also some 8th graders can beat freshmen to it just depends on who wrestles who

LMAO!!!!!!!!! One of the funniest posts ever on this board! Also, one of the more sad but true posts. We will never escape these trophy hunting parents, coaches/officials.

This is a very interesting topic. My son was fortunate to beat some quality kids last year and place 2nd at Kid's State as an 8th grader. At the time we looked forward to matching up with some of the high school kids. He is now a now a freshman and still wrestling 14u. I noticed several 8th graders in his bracket this year that are capable of placing and winning the whole thing.

Joey would fall into the category of having a tough high school wrestling room and splitting time with a senior who took 3rd at high school state. Joey and the senior battled all season long and he split time with him. During the Regional wrestle-off he beat the senior once (he had to do it twice and did not). Joey was extremely disappointed, but he quickly refocused his attention on the Kid's State series. We have talked a little about this subject and he says he just wants to compete. I like the idea of breaking the Kids series off at 14u (up to 8th grade) , then dividing the high school divisions into freshman & sophomores/ and juniors & seniors. This way seniors could wrestle if they choose to (maybe we would have some grand state matchups). Having said all this I am not trying to take anything away from the 8th graders. Some of these guys will hold there own just fine.

Sport0,

Why are you blocking private messages?

Takedown45, I am very disappointed in you. I would definitely agree that this forum is no place for personal attacks. I will take you at your word that you feel the same way and will refrain from personal attacks in the future. In my post, I was just trying to prove a very simple point. Our USAWKS age divisions were carefully thought out to be as “inclusive” as possible. They each are 24 months long and are structured to pit kids of the same maturity level together. I contend that the toughest jump up in age division is the one you are about to make.

The jump from six to eight could be described as the toughest because it is the first. You have made that first climb up the ladder and reached the pinnacle to suddenly be thrown back to the bottom. But those who work hard will survive, continue to improve their technical knowledge of the sport, and will find success at the next level.

The jump from eight to ten could be described as the toughest because of the wrestler’s anticipation of another jump. But those who work hard will survive, continue to improve their technical knowledge of the sport, and will find success at the next level.

The jump from ten to twelve could be described as toughest because “oh, my gosh that boy has hair on his legs”. In this division you have boys that are prepubescent wrestling those who have crossed over and have gained the power of testosterone. You will see boys who have honed their technical skills be overpowered by the strength of their competition. But those who work hard will survive, continue to improve their technical knowledge of the sport, and will find success at the next level.

The jump from twelve to fourteen could be described as the toughest because of all the reasons described in this thread. But those who work hard will survive, continue to improve their technical knowledge of the sport, and will find success at the next level.

The jump from fourteen to sixteen could be described as the toughest because of all the outside distractions that are discovered which pull these “young men” away from our sport…girls, cars, and jobs….just to name a few. But those who work hard will survive, continue to improve their technical knowledge of the sport, and will find success at the next level.

I think I understand the issues…but I don’t think that you can look at this issue with tunnel vision when changes made with good intentions in mind could have the unanticipated consequence of upsetting the entire apple cart. So what may happen to the level of freshman participation in our sport if we force them all to wrestle in a High School division? I’ll tell you what I think could happen. Many of these 14 year olds will choose not to participate and we will loose more kids at what could be described as a critical age “forever”. I think that most coaches have similar views of this issue as Coach Seible. They want these boys to wrestle. They don’t care whether it is Freestyle, Greco Roman, or Folkstyle. They just want them to wrestle as much as they can. You will find a common thread in each jump in age. While they are each equally scary, those who work hard will survive, continue to improve their technical knowledge of the sport, and will find success at the next level.

Are the eighth graders in this division at a disadvantage? Yes, I will concede that fact. But, is it more or less of a disadvantage than the five, seven, and nine year olds face? I am not convinced. If they are coached properly they are prepared for the first or second week of March when they start to run into the older side of the division. There are examples of those who do a good job preparing for that level of competition every year. This year a few of those examples in D1 are Tyler Baughman, Ethan Mumaw, Tyler Terron, Trent Robb, and Ryne Cokely. Next year it will be another crew. Will all these boys place this weekend…maybe not, but I wouldn’t bet against any of them.

The first lesson you should learn in this sport is that life is not always fair and right after you learn that lesson you quickly learn how to create your own justice…one match at a time.

I have to agree with that, they're just at the same disadvantages as 5, 7, 9, and 11 year olds. When your at the bottom age of your bracket, its always going to be tough. Good post Confucius.

5 Year olds wrestling 9 year olds sounds more cruel than freshman against 8th graders.

Next year your freshman kid can be the spoiler as long this is not his 2nd year 14 un. If your 8th grader is second year 14un then you should have started school one year earlier.
If the freshman kids have a USA card and they are the correct age just deal with it.

I use the name because I'm a big fan of the Missouri Tigers.

I agree 100% with Will on the point that KSHSAA's dictatorship on the rule stopping 8th graders from practicing/participating with high schoolers is dumb. I'd love to see that change. I think that could step up the level of wrestling in Kansas alot.

i think we shouldnt split it and should just keep it by age because that can go both ways some people might not like it this year but next year they will

First I think it's funny how the word IDIOTS used in a non-directional way gets deleted but CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS can call a entire club out and not get deleted I guess it's a who you know type a deal,, sorry was not using word idiot as direct insult,was using in passing should have used CLOWNS,FELLAS,CRAZY GUYS,something a little less insulting...Confucious if you would have started your response with that post,then would take it/u seriously but trying to be a dime store comic defeats the point of making good debate over any topic,AGAIN MY APOLOGY IF I OFFENDED YOU IN ANY WAY..................... I dont think original post stated unfair because of physical maturity,body development,who has hair/who doesnt type of deal I could be wrong though,, I ve seen several post that discuss practice time,practice partners,toughness of practice etc... whether those are legit beefs or not is whole other topic but I believe that is alot of question in mind, I can honestly say my son is in 8th grade,his body matured a year ago,strong as a ox,his wrestling is getting close,he has gotten alot better just in the 3-4 wks that high schoolers have been in the room banging on him and Im glad for that so I buy in to that theory mentioned above,,I also believe that this weekend if it were just 8th graders in his bracket he would have great chance of walking away with whole thing but you throw in the freshman and now he faces a uphill battle and he knows this and is looking forward to it so in saying that does this make him less of wrestler or needing to step up or quit whining or other sarcastic jokes that have been used I dont think so and if you or anyone else does that is your opinion,,whether this weekend makes him a better wrestler or gets him ready for high school that much quicker I doubt it but thats my opinion,I wish all 8th grade young men good luck this weekend as well as all the freshman,in the end Im sure the best wrestlers in each bracket will work there way thru,some easier than others and that's what counts,again sorry if I offended you or anyone else earlier and I hope this doesnt get deleted so you can read my apology........

Because people keep messaging me. I thought that was the purpose of this board and others like it, to message. Also, some classless person could post those private messages to the public board. So why have private messages? If I would ever feel the need to private message someone (I won't), then I would contact them via the board and tell them to check their private messages.

It is fine the way it is. Over half of the high school kids jump up in weight and do not compete at their high school weight. I think keeping it an age thing is the best way to do it. Some (a few) 8th graders are older than the freshman. It is time for them to step it up an get a taste of high school wrestling. Not that many freshman wrestle on varsity (except some of the lighter weights. Those kids that wrestled 103 or 112 tend to jump up 1 or 2 weights for subdistricts. Leave it the same.

Sean McCarthy
STA Kids Club

I see both sides of this issue. When I was a Freshman I weighed 85 pounds and was getting my butt kicked in High School matches. So I was really glad to get to kids wrestling, to get a more even playing field( weight wise). But here was no doubt that I was in better shape and had much more competetive matches because of High School. But until there is another place for these High School wrestlers to compete the situation is mute. I mean where do we draw the line. Is it fair that some kids have more money than others so they get to travel to out of state tournaments and wrestle national caliber opponets while others could not afford to go? Is it fair that some kids go to the best camps and get better coaching than some of the less fortunate ones? I still remember when Adam Almauger was a Freshman and coming off a State Championship runner-up finish and lost to an eighth grade Kevin Callahan at Ottawa. I know that this was an exception, but it was a great match to watch. And what about Ryne Cokeley wrestling a 1-0 match against 4A State Runner-up Derrick Weller last weekend in Ottawa. What a great match, we will be talking about that match in the years to come. People are always going to have concerns about this issue like in high school with the 16 year old Freshman thing that was going on last year. I applaud Mr. Cokeley's effort to bring this up for dicussion but until the state of Kansas changes some things I don't think anything is going to change. Wrestling is wrestling is wrestling. Just my two cents worth.

Actually Club wrestling have MORE opportunities to practice and compete then high school wrestlers due to KSHSAA and NFHS restricting number of matches, distance you can travel, competition points etc... Its possible a kids in club wrestling could practice everynight of the week with multiple clubs and travel to national tournaments on a weekly basics... maybe not likely but possible.