I just wanted to post this, my brother was wrestling on mat 6 this year, and he was screwed out of points that determined how he did. When we rewatched the video, there were atleast 5 points that he should have had, that the lady wouldn't give to him. I know that i'm upset right now, but, at the state level, we shouldn't have refs that have to clue what they're doing. I was just wondering if anyone else at mat 6, or people that watched matches reffed by the lady on mat 6 agreed with me?

this ie regaurding to the lady ref on mat 6. i set & watch her ref alot of her matches during the day. she was very consitied on what she was calling. if people think they could do better job, then go to school & get your ref's card. it takes alot to do what they do. what ever her name was good job.

Thats right. Its the refs fault. Your brother would have been a state champion if not for that ref. No need to just **** it up and work harder. Just because of that lady ref. Life ***** .

Look, i'm not saying that my brother would have been a state champ, i'm sorry that it came across that way. I'm just sayin that he got a reversal, and had the kid in a pinning position, and she didn't give him back points for that or the escape that he had had earlier. Which led to over time, and then a loss. And then today she refed his matches, she was calling stuff differently, and i'm just saying that she needs to give points when needed and call stuff even, not give points one day, and not the other. I also know that it's probably not the most fun refing, and i respect those who do it. But there still needs to be a line, between a ref that knows what they are doing, and calling things that way they should be called, and a ref that doesn't look like they belong there.

I did not see ne of the action on mat 6 but i did get screwed in the consolation quarterfinals. I had the kid on his back for at least ten seconds and he was pinned (the opposing coach even said so), and the ref only gave me two points which led to me losing by one. the only reason it happened this way was because the ref was too lazy to go on the side the kids back was exposed on. just my thoughts.

I'm sorry that that happened to you. Atleast you got some points, cause she wouldn't give us any!!

I had heard from District 4 that the Mat 6 ref in question was not worthy of working at the state tournament so I watched her work several matches. Matches I had no care as to the results. She consistently looks around during the matches not paying attention to the action in front of her. I once saw her call out of bounds for the circle stripe and as you will recall this mat was a 1/2 mat square. I am sure she wasn't out to cheat anyone but I really didn't feel she had the experience or command of the rules necessary to ref at the state tournament. I asked how the officials were chosen for state and it appears that it is by one person's discretion. Perhaps at next years state body meeting a procedure can be devised to have coaches, club directors, tournament directors, and head officials rate the performance of the officials during the year. This way we will get the best officials. I am sure all officials were doing their best but when it comes to the state tournament it takes more than just effort. I have always personally felt that an official who has never wrestled will have a difficult time judging because they cannot anticipate or understand the situations, especially stalling (consistently the most inconsistently called situation in wrestling, but that is another topic!)

I agree they need to do better w/ refs next yr. The ref's that were doing 1&2 and the 3&4 mats for 16 and under did a terrible job. I saw several times when there should ahve been back points but there wasn't. I was told by a north western ks high school coach that neither of these refs are allowed to referee middle school matches. But they let them handle the high school kids???

The state tournament officials are selected based on recommendations from the four districts. Generally, each district sends five officials to the tournament; presumably, these should be the best officials that district has to offer. I can't speak for every district, but I know that at least two districts, including District 4, base their recommendations on votes from the clubs within the district. (Will, I think that whoever told you it was one person's discretion didn't know what he/she was talking about.)

I'm not going to try and make a blanket statement about the quality of all 21 officials. There were a few that I thought were of questionable ability, as well. However, as a former district director, I can tell you that it is like pulling teeth to get clubs to vote or state their preference on officials. Nobody wants to take the time to evaluate and recommend the best officials ahead of time, and after the tournament has begun, it is too late.

My recommendation is that you take some time next year to watch the officials during the invitational tournaments. Every Kids certified official has a number assigned to them, which most wear on their sleeve. Don't just look at the bad officiating, but also look for the exemplary officials. And then, when early February rolls around, encourage your club directors to vote on those officials that you were most impressed with. That way, the officials who showed that they are the best during the course of the year will be the ones honored by an invitation to the state tournament.

I know there was some bad calls ,but I would like just a brief moment to commend Kenny Taylor.
He worked mat 1& 2 and did an exceptional job he had very few disputed calls and his personal touch on the way he calls pins is very cool.
Thanks Kenny!

Thank you for all your help Mr. Cokeley and Mr. Juby. That was what i was wanting to know. I am also wondering, is there any way to find out if Sara Woody will be refing at Nationals this coming weekend, and if she is, what age and weight it will be? Thanks again for all your help.

Hey Harshman--let me give you a scenario. You are the ref and you have 2 coaches screaming at you, while a mother in the stands is yelling accusations at you without the benefit of being able to see what you see 40 ft away. You have 2 or 3 other matches going on around you with whistles and kids flying all around, trying to keep the kids and yourself safe. At the same time you need to keep the match totally fair and correct in everyones eyes. It would be a little difficult don't you think.

Why not instead, teach your wrestlers to not let the ref decide your match. Make the win for yourself. You will feel a lot better because, as in life, nothing is fair and obstacles will always be thrown in your path. I will always back the ref and not the coach because the ref is human and can make a mistake. For some reason, humans always try to find someone else to blame. The only complaint I have is that the ref needs to have the heart and confidence to call a match according to the rules in the book and not by some coaches insistant complaining to sway the outcome. Most of the coaches that blame refs are going to drive the refs out of kids wrestling. They really don't get paid enough to put up with the abuse.

Sara--I think you did a good job considering that you are in an atmosphere that thinks women can't participate or officiate in this sport.

Kenny Taylor, Jr.; Keith Ashpole; Joe Smith; Steve Allen; Lisa Woody; and a few others that I don't know your names... Thanks for a great job of officiating under extreme pressure. You all did a great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FYI -- I can't remember who said that you have to have been a wrestler in order to be a good official--Sara Woody was a wrestler.

Sara Woody did a great job, I watched several of the 64, 68, 72, and 76 pound weight classes and never seen a really bad call, I did see a couple of questionable call in the 12 & Under championship, but Sara was not the ref the championships. Quit crying over spilt milk Harshman and start thinking about next year. You can not change the out look of the match over the internet.

Which match was it that your brother got screwed out of his points? I didn't see his first lose but had a fine seat to see his second defeat and can't recall him not getting all of his points. Seems that wrestling those Colorado kids didn't help him much this year execpt to inflate his record. He should try to wrestle in the same tournaments with all those good kids out of district two then maybe your expectations won't be so high.

wow!! i cant believe all of the negativity, do i dare say that i agree with harshman. all i have to say is that a good ref would have looked at the books and seen that the same wrestler cant get 2 reversals in a row, without the other guy getting points in between. and 3 warnings about locked hands without rewarding the other wrestler a point, and all at state. i am very proud of my son for even making state, for a first year wrestler that aint bad, but i am all for giving points where they are earned. i am sure the refing job is a hard one, especially in that atmosphere, when my son weighed in on thursday, ms. woody asked him to cut his hair before the next days events, he was the 24 match and the first thing she asked him was did he cut his hair. out of how many kids????? his hair did not hang below his headgear. at the chance of repeating myself, i am sure that the ref job is very tough and i am sure harshman agrees.

This weekend didn't go as well as I had hoped but I do have to say as far as the ref's went I think they did a good job. I didn't have any kids on mat 6 so I can't speak for what happened there. I do have one complaint though; On Matt 11 match 20 there was a young man wrestling that has a sever case of asthma. He on two occasions during the third period informed the official that he needed his inhaler. Both times the ref refused to give him a time out, shook his head no and motioned the young man back to the center. I don't know the level of experience of this official or his knowledge of asthma, but he needs to realize that this isn't a case of an out of shape wrestler needing a break. This is a medical condition requiring the person to take medication to stop the constriction of his breathing ability. I could not believe he did this. After the match a coach attempted to ask him why he refused to give them a time out and he just motioned him off the mat rudely. I would like this official to imagine this, you are in a match wrestling well for two periods and then something you can't control happens. You try to breath, you gasp, but your able to get only half a breath you have the means at your disposal to cure this, but your refused. I know this kid, know him well. He runs extra, lifts weights, swims to increase his ability to fight off asthma attacks. He busts his butt to make it to state and what happens, his worst fear he has an asthma attack and the ref won't let him have his inhaler. Would he have won, no. Would he have placed probably not. That's not the issue. He should have been given the time out!

i'm in aggreement with both sides. i was screwed royaly this weekend by a district 4 referee number 299, he had a lot of problems this weekend, i'm not saying i would have been a state champ cause whoa ty richardson is a stud! but this referee was just horrible i'm sorry thats the only way i can put it, and the long hair lady ref on mat 6 she may have been consistant but her calls were wrong i watched a few matches down their and she was consistant and the wrestlers knew what she was calling but its hard to change your way of wrestling in 1 day!! know where i'm coming from? but then again thats the risk taken in the state tourney because you get the refs who you've never had before and every ref is different. but the amount of mistakes this weekend were unbelievable! i mean every age group had 4 or 5 contraversal calls that made matches take an 180 degree turn in the movement of the refs hand. i thought the refs choosen for this state tourny were poorly choosen but then again not many people want to be refs because they get booed, yelled at etc. so in that case i give my respect to them but i also say i think many of you did a poor job this weekend.

To ybs, I agree. I watched mat 11 for 2 days. There were 2 excellent officials on that mat. But there was one who should not have been refereeing these matches.

To ybs, my brother also has a type of asthma, and he was also declined his water, which is what he uses, because he had medicane that he takes before his matches, and the inhaler doesn't work. To Wrestling father, he was screwed on his 2nd match againt Delich, i'm sorry that you didnt' see it. He lost fair and square to Miller, he is a VERY good wrestler, that we have beat earlier on in the year.I'm honsetly suprised that he didn't place better than he did. And i'd like to know what you consider tournaments? We went to Salina, Topeaka, and others. I wonder where you were, because obvisually you've watched my brother wrestle before if you know he has lost to a colorado kid. He has wrestled Delich and lost in overtime to him before, and we have wrestled Cale Demel twice and beat him both times, and others. As for the colorado kids. We have wrestled one, 2 times. The first time we lost and the second time, we beat him 9-0. So i don't know what your getting at. And again, i respect the refs, i know that it's not a fun job and it is not easy, but it is there choice to be there, nobody made them. I just don't think that the ref on mat six did a very good job on what she was calling. I'd honestly like to know, how you can go from being on the bottom, to having the kid in a cradle, and not get any back points, or a reversal? I'd also like to make a commit to CoachEd about coaches. I don't know about your wrestling club, but where we wrestle at, our coaches don't believe in arguing with the refs like alot of coaches do. So, she didn't have 2 coaches hollaring at her from Emporia. And to bigwrestling fan, i'm not trying to change the outcome of the match, it's to late and nothing can be done about it. I know that. I just don't want it to happen again. I'm sure that if your kid got cheated out of 5 points at a state tournament, or anywhere for that matter, you wouldn't be very happy either.- Think about that for awhile.

I would bet that all of us as athletes, parents, coaches and fans have felt that a referee's bad call either cost us or our child a match or our favorite team a game. Maybe the bad call did actually cost someone the match or the team a game. Most people I believe would be understandably very frustrated with the situation. I believe we need to try to control our frustration and disappointment as soon as possible, but it is not easy.

I once heard Dan Gable talk about his final collegiate match, the NCAA final match his senior year that ended his famous undefeated college career on a losing note. He said there was some questionable decision by the referee that many thought cost him that match. I believe he said that he too thought it was a questionable call. What he ultimately decided to do was to use it as a positive motivating factor. He determined that he would work so hard to improve for the upcoming Olympics that he would become so good that a referee would not be in position to cost him a match with a bad call. I believe he won the next Olympic gold medal without allowing a point during any of his matches. So even if we do feel that a bad call cost us a match, a higher place at State, or even a State Championship, at some point after we have dealt with the frustration and disappointment, maybe the athlete could turn the disappointment into motivation.