Throwing a temper tantrum ?
#106660
03/26/07 08:56 PM
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forvac
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We all know emotions run high during the heat of competition. Is there a penalty for throwing a big fit? In the last two weeks I seen the two biggest tantrums of the year by wrestlers. District 1 14 and under and yesterday the worst outburst on the 8 and under mat (Mom got kicked in the face by the wrestler). Both cases went without a penalty of any kind. Can the wrestler get booted out of the tournament after the blowup?
Last edited by forvac; 03/26/07 09:12 PM.
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: countdown]
#106687
03/27/07 01:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
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OnHwt10
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no from what i saw of the finals from that match the losing wrestler handled himself really well and i saw a fit from a kid in 16 and under D1 who was a high school state champ no less and he got DGed for his actions which i thought was the right move from the ref half the kids there should be there for there fits after losing
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: countdown]
#106689
03/27/07 01:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Bronco Wrestler
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Rule 6-5- End of Match Procedure
Art. 1... If no fall occurs during the final period, the referee shall direct the wrestlers to return and remain on the 10 foot circle while the referee verifies the match score. (It may be ncessary for the referee to go to the scorer's table.)
Art. 2... The wrestlers shall shake hands and the referee shall declare the winner by raising the winning wrestler's hand. (Photo 37)
Photo 37 states (6-5-2) If either contestant fails to participate in this procedure, it shall be considered unsportsmanlike conduct.
So it should have been considered unsportsmanlike conduct against the Paola kid, but beyond the one penalty if he had not had any other infractions such as that earlier in the tournament then the official's only action was to penalize him with the unsportsmanlike conduct.
He could have been called for a flagrant misconduct penalty which would have disqualified him from the tournament, but this is a judgement call by the official based upon the actions at the end of the match besides not shaking hands.
Last edited by Bronco Wrestler; 03/27/07 01:48 AM.
Alex R. Ryan KSHSAA Official #15616 USAWKS Official #707
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: OnHwt10]
#106690
03/27/07 01:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 220
Allie
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Any suggestions on what to do with your young wrestler when he has a fit? Mine lost seldom in our area tournaments - but when he did you would've thought that someone had tried to kill him. He just seems to melt into a puddle and loses all stability in his bones!! Then he cries and carries on until I want to ... well, you know. We have talked and talked until we are blue in the face. (He wasn't the kid who kicked, by the way) How do you help them understand how they are supposed to handle it? We have no sympathy for him when he acts this way. Ideas anyone?
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: Allie]
#106692
03/27/07 01:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Bronco Wrestler
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Be parents and punish him for his actions? Perhaps make him miss the next tournament?
Alex R. Ryan KSHSAA Official #15616 USAWKS Official #707
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: forvac]
#106695
03/27/07 01:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6
jarby
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Temper tantrums are going to happen no matter what age you are. The way you act on the mat reflects your club. Not shaking a wrestlers hand throwing headgear or just walking away are all poor sportsmanship. The 8 and under kid who kicked his mom off the mat is not a clubs problem but the problem of the parents. I saw the match and the kid was going by what the fans were saying not by his ability to win the match. The tantrum was brought on by the people around the mat yelling thats 1 or that's 2 yes it might have been a bad call but you have to deal with it and move on.
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: jarby]
#106705
03/27/07 02:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 71
TheTiger
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Hold you child out of competition until he learns how to deal with defeat, plain and simple.
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: TheTiger]
#106712
03/27/07 03:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 31
shoot to win
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my son used to throw tantrums that would rival anything that you saw this weekend. i used to tell him that i love the fact that he hates to lose but when he losses he has to show respect to the other wrestler and coach for the job that they did this time and lets go work on what we have to do to change the outcome. he is in high school now and still cries when he losses, he now just goes off by himself to do it. holding him out would not let him learn to handle it if he isnt given the chance to lose.
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: shoot to win]
#106723
03/27/07 11:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 211
Sudawn Bradley
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I didn't see the 14 and under match in question, but it sounds like the father/coach did retrieve the kid and made him follow through with appropriate end-of-the match conduct.
I did see a semi-punch (fist did not connect with other wrestler face, but elbow did) being thrown at the end of one of the 12u finals at D1 District. The young man throwing the punch was not penalized by the offical. Perhaps it was a judgment call by the ref, but seemed flagant to us since the same wrestler had also shoved the same winner at subs the week before.
As parents and coaches, we all need to work to ensure our kids behave in a sportsman like manner. Being kids, and wrestling being an individual sport, of course they will have moments where they do not respond appropriately and at those times the parent/coach needs to step in and correct the behavior. Unfortunately, sometimes these kids are only responding similar to how they have seen their parent/coach respond.
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: Sudawn Bradley]
#106735
03/27/07 01:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
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wrestlingmania
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I think, as parents, we need to step up and first of all make sure we set the example for them to follow. There was a parent at the state tournament that was standing behind his opponent's coaches, screaming and cussing at them, the officials, the table workers. His son won so I can't imagine his actions if he had lost. What kind of a role model does this set for his son and other kids watching the episode?
Then it is, ultimately, the parent's responsibility to see that their child behaves appropriately. Forbid them from attending the next tournament until they can handle their emotions, win or lose.
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: wrestlingmania]
#106736
03/27/07 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
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PatrickCavanaugh
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Our club preaches you need to lose the same as you win. Easier said then done. My son has had several full blown meltdowns this year on the mat. I have tried to explain the lack of sportsmanship when he does it, but it seems all reason goes out the door when he loses especially tough losses. He had what was hopefully his last meltdown at Rock Creek (2 in same tournament) this year. When it was done, well actually when we got home that night (yeah, i was that mad)I explained to him that he had embarrassed his team, his family & most of all himself by the way he reacted to defeat & that was his last chance. I told him that I would not take wrestling away, but he would have to find his own way to practice as well as tournaments. (he's 9 years old) Then the coaches followed up at the next practice with stairs for 30 minutes & 50 push ups. He lost once at Subs & 2x at District since then & I am proud to say that while he still had meltdowns, they all happened at least 50 feet from the mat & were more along the lines of implosions rather then the usual explosions.
Patrick Cavanaugh 785-249-3440
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: wrestlingmania]
#106738
03/27/07 02:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 151
bawoody
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I have a 9 year old that has refused to shake the winning wrestlers hand until forced by the ref. I have talked to him until I was blue in the face, but my wife came to the rescue one Saturday. She made HIM go to the scoring table and forfeit his reaming matches. He was also forfeited from another tournament after that, both of these tournaments he would have placed at. Since those tournaments he still gets upset, but controls his actions on the mat, I know emotions run high and everyone wants to win, but that's not always possible. At this young age I keep emphasizing good sportsmanship until he learns how to handle it. Maybe forfeiting a couple of tournaments along the way might be incentive enough.
Bruce Woodruff
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: wrestlingmania]
#106743
03/27/07 02:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 220
Allie
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I have some good ideas for next year. I have thought about making him wrestle in the 10 and under so the competition would be a bit more and he would experience losing more often. The competition he ran up against at State was incredible. I wish he had some of those boys to practice against. It wasn't until he wrestled those boys that he realized that there were kids his age who were stronger and faster than him. Nothing will deflat your ego faster than figuring that out on your own!!
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: Allie]
#106745
03/27/07 03:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 105
Ell
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My eight year old used to throw fits and I also HATED it! Our club makes the entire team run sprints if any one kid throws a fit and believe me these kids don't like making thier friends mad! Also I realized that the main reason mine was throwing a fit was because it was meltdown from all the pressure they are under to win! We don't put stress on him but you don't wrestle because you want to lose, so anyway this year our coach reminded them every thursday practice that tourneys are just glorified practice for state and no pressure to win but just get good mat time! I also drove further and took my son to bigger tourneys to ease his anxiety a little before State. I am proud to say that I feel that these two actions were the main influence on my son taking first this last weekend at state. He was very calm about it. Last year he choked at districts and got beat by kids that he had beat! Any way I hope this helps!
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: wrestlingmania]
#106766
03/27/07 06:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 249
VanFam7
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I would agree acompletely with wrestlingmania. We must not accept this behavior whether it comes from coaches, parents, or wrestlers. I do think that the majority of the problems stem from everyone wanting to officiate the match. If everyone who tries to officate matches from the sidelines would become certified we would have an abundance of officals who, thankfully, know everything! LOL! There is a process for the COACH to discuss or "protest" certain calls. that is part of their responsibility as the Coach. If as a parent you don't feel that your kids coach is getting it done then find a new coach. Don't just jump up and down and scream like fool from the sidelines!
Annette & FJ VanAnne sekcoach@yahoo.com
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: VanFam7]
#106781
03/27/07 07:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 201
WOOD_WON
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This is a very touchy subject. I do agree that fits on the mat are uncalled for. If you make them set out are you hurting them because they aren't dealing with handling a loss? Once these fits subside you have the burning desire inside that is needed to succeed on and off the mat. Do we take that burn away from them? The burning in a kids heart to succeed is something that no coach can give them. They have it or they don't. There are always 2 sides to every coin. Give me that kid who throws fits now at the age of 5-6. I will take heart over ability and knowledge any day.
No names have been mentioned and i am not going to mention any. BUT, if it is the one i think that is in question wrestled more than one match at state. After his first loss i was greeted by him coming off the mat with a smile and attitude of, I got beat by a better kid. Did he get beat by a better kid in the finals or was he upset by something else.
One thing to remember. There are numerous "kids" that know wrestling and the rules better than their parents and sometimes even the coaches that are mat side with them. Yes, they are suppose to handle themselves and listen to the ref and their coach. BUT! How do you blame a 5-6 year old for getting mad when they know the rules even better than the ref making the calls.
One other thing, wrestlers feed off the fans and their coaches. If the coaches and surrounding fans are up in arms the kid will naturally get that way also. It is easier to tell a older kid "you shouldn't have let it get that close" than a 5-6 year old. This is why you see the fits in the younger ages.
2+2=4 Does Fit=Heart
Just one opinion.
Jason Wood
"Champions rise during the week not the weekend" Jason Wood
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: WOOD_WON]
#106801
03/27/07 09:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Bronco Wrestler
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Show me a 5 or 6 year old? Let's be honest here, half of these kids are wrestling because they have too, not their choice but their parents. I seen a kid at AGE 3 wrestling this year, he could barely walk let alone wrestling. These kids don't always know the rules, they know what they are taught by their coaches. Don't say the kids know the rules better at 5 or 6 than their parents because these kids are just learning colors in school let alone how to interpret the rules in a wrestling rules book. It all comes back to their influences on how they act. If they aren't reprimanded for their actions they will continue to act the way they do.
If it's not broke don't fix it... if you don't think it's wrong you're not going to fix it are you?
Alex R. Ryan KSHSAA Official #15616 USAWKS Official #707
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: Bronco Wrestler]
#106811
03/28/07 12:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 201
WOOD_WON
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Honest? Do you have kids? Do they wrestle? If you don't, then you CAN NOT tell anyone else how to deal with their kids. If you do have kids and they do wrestle and are at the level of the kids in the finals this past weekend then we will listen. Better yet, write a book and your weekends will be pleasantly spent in your big home that you bought from the $$$ off your book. I will buy a copy for sure.
I CAN give you actual experiences on this matter. I have a kid, he wrestles and at the level to be in the finals. At the age of 7 my child knew more than me or anyone else that coached and has up until last year. And yes, they know their colors. RED and GREEN. If they don't know more than the parents then it must be that all parents stay at every practice for every minute all year long. Because if they didn't wrestle like i didn't they won't learn unless they are there learning from the coaches teaching the kids. I do know that a fit is NOT acceptable in any way shape or form.
When my son was 5-6 he threw fits and still gets emotional after some losses that are questionable on the calls. Reason being is that he knows 95% of the rules that actually come into play. I met a coach that told me not to take the fire from him but to harness it and use it in productive ways. You might know him, Pat Smith?
It was a tough road but you know what, this past weekend he was going for his 3rd straight title. He lost. He did cry but due to his knee being injured after the match ahd been won. He didn't throw a fit. He knew that he was not the best wrestler that day. The fits can be handled in a way without taking away something that some of them love. I do agree that there are some there that are there only because of mom/dad or both.
You say that they are just learning their colors. if so, then are the mentally mature enough to understand why you are pulling them off the mat. OR, will they think that the hunger and passion to win and learn the sport is wrong, reguardless what you tell them. Actions speak louder than words. Yes, you are correct, it starts with the actions of the parents and coaches.
I knew it was wrong, I fixed it and he is on a very special road. Headed to success.
Jason Wood Proud father of a wrestler who threw fits.
"Champions rise during the week not the weekend" Jason Wood
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: WOOD_WON]
#106816
03/28/07 01:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 151
Ginny Wagh
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Here's a question about the other side. What about those kids who are winners and show boat after the match. Last year at state our son lost in his second match and the kid did a little dance then made the "I'm hot" symbol on his behind before shaking our son's hand. Our son was beside himself. He had just wrestled his heart out to be disrespected. As a parent, I saw red. But I didn't do anything, except talk to my son and try to make him understand that that is not how you act as a winner or as a loser. To this day, whether he wins or loses, he will generally shake and hug his opponent. Sure it is exciting to win, and it hurts to lose, but you have to move on and look forward to your next match. I realize that this is more difficult for some due to personalities, but all we can do as parents is help guide them in the right direction.
Ginny Wagh KCWC in Maryland
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Re: Throwing a temper tantrum ?
[Re: WOOD_WON]
#106900
03/28/07 09:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Bronco Wrestler
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Jason-
I do not have kids of my own, nor will I anytime soon I hope. I have however been an official for 2 years now and wrestled for the last 7 years, so I've seen plenty of wrestlers and their reactions.
So would you be one of the parents in the stands trying to tell me how to do my job then? The one yelling for two when a takedown isn't called? If you didn't/don't know that much I'll gladly lend you my rules book. If our coaches would take the time to read the book and take the test we as officials and the high school coaches must take we would all be better off. The test is a great way to learn the rules, maybe have your son take the test and see if scores the 95% you say he would, I highly doubt it as it's extremely difficult. It's even open book, so you two could take it together.
I'm not saying you have to remove the fire from him but show him the right way to hide it until he's out of sight or at home. There is no need for a meltdown at a Tournament just because he's "good" and he loses. He loses he loses, it's part of it, no one's perfect, ask Dan Gable. Like I said if you don't punish him for his outbursts what's going to make him quit? He'll keep doing it until he's forced to cool off. It's not only embarassing for him but for his teammates as well, I know first hand how bad it is, we had several on our team when I was in school. It makes everone look bad.
I understand being upset about losing but crying everytime makes you look weak. He will begin to understand that as time gets older and he gets to high school. Will he still be crying when he losses? If you don't begin to stop it now it won't fix it's self. It may not be crying when he's older, it may be a fit where he walks off throwing his headgear, cussing, etc. You tell me how that will make his team look?
They will know why you are pulling them off the mat if you explain to them. They will correlate the punishment with their actions. I'm not saying it's the only way but it's a sure fire way to get the point across. If you say they are smart enough to understand the rules surely they can understand the rule of outburst= a week off right?
Actions speak louder than words, so quit talking to the kids and punish them. They aren't going to respond to threats with no follow through, but it's their choice and eventually my choice if the outburst is bad enough as to whether their day is done or not. It's not a choice us as official's like to make but sometimes we are forced too.
Alex
Alex R. Ryan KSHSAA Official #15616 USAWKS Official #707
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