I know the rule on beards in highschool wrestling...

but can they discriminate on a religous group that it is part of that religon or culture to grow beards???

I ask because my cousin in Wisconson got a forgien exchange student from Iraq..and is actually a Muslin- a GREAT freestyle wrestler he told me. He said that Abdal (the student) never had a problem over seas with his beard- because he said his father and culture encourages him to have one... and he doesn't want to dissapoint.

What would you, as the ref, do in this situation???

Yes! The athlete chooses to participate agrees to follow the rules.



The referee is expected to enforce the rules!

Rule 4.2.1
Art. 1... During competition all wrestlers shall be clean shaven,. . .

Yet, just like in the food buisness, buisnesses reguarly place signs outside thier doors that say NO PETS- yet, when a blind person with an eye sight dog comes in, it is then exceptable.

There are exceptions to the rules.

Maybe a chin strap on the headgear??

Those rules have nothing to do with religous beliefs. Those are the folkstyle rules with that states organization - WIAA. I do not believe they wrestle folkstyle in the Middle East. The wrestler in question may have to wait for feestyle and greco seasons - where and when beards are allowed. I do not think they would change the rules in Iraq for an American exchange student. The student may also need a birth certificate. If Iraq allows 20 year old high school participants and Wisconsin only allows 18 or 19 year old participants - should the WIAA change that rule? The person in question maybe could practice/help coach with the team and not wrestle folkstyle during the H.S. season and still be involved if they do not want to shave. Most likely - the school would need a ruling from the WIAA prior to the season.

i personally wouldnt expect Iraq to do anything to try to help an American.

But here in America, we respect all culture and all beiliefs. Even if Abdul's beliefs are FAR diffrent than ours, is it fair for him not to wrestle because of hair on his chin??? Sure its not much to us, but to THIER culture....its huge.

Agian, is a CHINSTRAP, which is covering the CHIN, that crazy of an idea???

If an exchange student (who plays soccer) from Italy drinks wine with every meal in Italy and it is part of their culture that is fine in Italy. If that student is out for diner or at a party of some sort in a town (in Wisconsin U.S.A.) was caught consuming wine that would be a violation of a alchol/tobacco rule. Of course it would. That is part of the cultural exchange - playing and learning the rules, policies and laws of other countries and states.

Is it too much to expect the foreign exchange student to respect the rules? If the student finds the rule too onerous the CHOICE to participate belongs to the student.

When in Rome do as the Romans do, when in Iran do as the Iranians do, when in the USA, follow the rules.

Some countries have laws if an individual is caught stealing - the first offense and punishment is cutting off a finger. Those countries have very little theft.

I think this is actually a very interesting question that may not be as easily answered as some think. If for a religious reason, and can be proven as a part of a religious reason, I would think that with past cases on religious liberty, especially within a school setting, that the individual religious rights may be debatable as to the laws. I am not certain, I do know that in the past, the Supreme Court has ruled 5-4 in various cases regarding religious issues in regards to student rights and their free rights to exercise their religious beliefs within a public school setting. With the new supposed conservative nature of the court it is expected that some of these laws, currently being challenged will be over turned. If that is the case, things won’t be as easily decided as we may think.

It should be noted, that none of us reporting on this are lawyers and don’t have the final answer on things like this. Even if lawyers, unless something like this has been challenged in a court setting, then none of us have the pat answer. For those who would argue against the reasoning of challenging something like this, it is a part of what law, and the interpretation of law is for. There is a Constitution, and Bill of Rights for each American Citizen, and as a part of those rights is the right to challenge something that may be deemed as unfair and in fact a violation of Federal rights.

That said, it seems to me, that if the schools were a private institution, funded by private dollars, then at that point they or their governing organizations would be within their rights to establish rules which may, or may not, go against constitutional rights. If however, that organization receives federally funded dollars, then that organization has the responsibility to follow federal law, which may not have been established. I would think that on an issue like this, there has actually been little challenge to the law. Eventually it will happen, and at that point, who knows what the courts would decide. I know one thing, I certainly am not smart enough to make a blanket statement as to the rights of the student, whether he be Muslim, Christian, (yes some Christian religious sects also require a man at 18 years of age to grow a beard, and many of those attend public schools.) or whatever.

My own individual thoughts, are, that whether prayer, or a beard that no laws should be established to prevent the free exercise of ones religious beliefs, not even in a sporting event. The exception is unless there is potential harm that comes about as a result of that practice which I think one would be hard pressed to say is the case a beard would do that. Rules like this over the years, such as hair length has been changed, and I challenge that it could be changed here. I am not certain but I do know that when in High School, in other sports such as football, many had beards. I don’t know if that is the case today or not.

Again, an interesting debate and topic.

Last note, I know the person in question is not an American Citizen, but that doesn't change the possibility of future challenges as there are Muslim American Citizens who participate in sport.

As I have thought some about this, here is the question and the Rights that comes into play:

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.

I don’t see this as an age issue, or anything of that nature, it is simply put, a religious issue. One of the huge mistakes and reasons for misunderstanding on issues like this is the assumption of knowledge as to what a religious group thinks, and what is required for their practice of faith. I challenge that to some religious groups, beards are an important part of their religious belief. It does not matter if I agree or not, understand it or not, it is a part of that individual’s religious belief and they have the right to the Free Exercise Thereof clause.

In the past there have been many rules, and laws, that have been changed for one reason or another, including the fact that they violated individual personal liberties. I hate to admit this, but I can still remember some laws and rules, even within public schools, that discriminated based on race and gender. Thankfully some of those laws have been changed, and hopefully, and eventually, some of those laws related to gender will be reconsidered and interpreted and enforced differently (Title IX for example.) To simply state that it is the rule, or that it is the law for myself is not the answer. The answer should be based on is it based on the individuals rights. My personal belief is that to violate ones religious liberties as established under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, is a fair harsher reality than not allowing that person the rights as is supposedly guaranteed under the Constitution.

I have done some searching on this, and personally, I can’t find a single case where an issue like this was challenged in a court. Any lawyers out there have any information it would be interesting to see.

Mr. Furches,

your responds are always educational and non-biased. I appriciate your answers on the topic.

I called my cousin today, and Abdul's host family is on the same side as my own personal belief- That in this country, if you have the right to sit down and not participate in the saying of the Natioal Anthem in public schools because of the phrase "under God"- The right to exersize the....no, not strapping of a bomb- no, not human or animal sacrafice- BUT growing...a....beard- should be allowed. My cousin went on to tell me that Abdul is not the brightest kid in school....and he wasn't to bright in Iraq either! His only shot at going anywhere is with his Wrestling.

I can understand if this was something OUTLANDISH- but to be perfectally honest....the NFL adopted the rule that hair is "Part of the uniform" and can be pulled at any moment- Why is the "beard" rule in effect any way??? Beard scratching??? Then enforce the use of chin straps....PROBLEM SOLVED.

All im saying is this-

I love God. A lot. If some one told me to not say the national anthem in school because of the phrase "under God"- i would say it anyway! Freedom of religon

Weather your God is Muhammad....or Jesus Christ....or Coach Stovall- you still have freedom's

amen.

I can understand if this was something OUTLANDISH- but to be perfectally honest....the NFL adopted the rule that hair is "Part of the uniform" and can be pulled at any moment-

To play devil advocate, could a wrestler pull the beard and lead him around by it. I know, not as educational and non-biased as Furches

Follow the rules. Either shave or sit its that simple.

i think its sad that some people's world views are limited to the point where they think everything is so incredibly simplistic.

I think it's sad that everything has to be so difficult.

I don't know about this, all I know is that at least according to some, Beeson is better looking than me, but I won't go there.

As to everything else, in the words of a famous philosopher, "don't worry, be happy!"

This is America when here follow our rules, when in Iran follow their rules etc... Is that so hard to understand

just because rules are in place doesn't mean they are just rules. if the rules need to be tweaked to respect someone's culture/religious beliefs without changing how the match is wrestled then i think we are wrong to make the pompous statement, "tough luck, follow our rules"

What about the Amish kid that wants to wrestle but it is against his beliefs to wear a singlet, are we going to let him compete in jeans and a shirt, How about the I believe its hindu that always wear a turbin because it is against their beliefs to show their hair in public do we let them compete in a turbin, If we start tweaking rules for everyone then when does it end.

I would like to hear your response to the constitutional question. Also, we used to have rules that stated you couldn't have blacks and whites on the same team. Your thoughts on that? I was reading the other day, that one of the things that sets America a part from other countries is that we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights, England don't even have one. Are those documents important? What about the 1st Amendment?