Cokeley,

i am glad to see you are still using the 3rd grade jokes. You called me Ballhandler, i cant control my laughter. Arent you supposed to be an educated man? Why resort to the 3rd grade jokes? Your an adult, grow up. Why cant you just disagree with someone without the insults? I have my opinion you have yours, is that how you go thru life, insulting people who dont agree with you? What is up with that?

You should see him at a youth tournament when he doesn't agree with the referee's call, it's not pretty!

I am off to perry lecompton for the regional out there to watch my little brother. Good luck to everyone on this post who is wrestling or watching someone wrestle this weekend, even you cokeley. I appreciate the points of view that many people have posted on this topic. I respect your opinions as i am sure you respect mine. best of luck to everyone.

You know BigPin22, in his last post, makes some interesting comments (his sarcasm aside):

1. He states: You don't think that it is embarrassing to get pinned in 8 seconds?

Comment: Sure it is ... and at duel just this past season, a wrestler I'm very familiar with did just that to his first dual opponent of the year. He was wrestling a kid he knew nothing about, but from a steller program. When the match was over, and this wrestler went to shake the the opposing coach's hand, that coach prolonged the hand-shake, and, in effect stated to this wrestler that he hopes he feels good about himself, because he just pinned and embarrassed an inexperienced freshman.

Like I mentioned earlier, this concept of "sportsmanship" is an intangible concept. Obviously, this coach was of the opinion that this wrestler conducted himself in an unsportsmanlike manner.

I still like to believe that the embarrassment and/or humiliation arising from the 8 second pin mentioned above, is an unfortunate, and in many instances, to be expected, bi-product of "competition" - meaning - that there was no "intent" (deliberate or sublime) to embarrass a lesser opponent or to show-off, just an intent to put forth his best and most agressive effort. The resulting embarrassment and/or humiliation, in that context, is simply inherent in the nature of the sport. To borrow a phrase from Lakemats, "it is what it is".

I don't think that anyone is proposing that any wrestler deliberately suppress or otherwise tone down their natural aggession and/or competitveness, to make allowances for an inferior opponent - at least, I'm not. If you, as an inexperienced, weaker, technically non-proficient wrestler, find yourself wrestling a grossly superior opponent, be prepared for the consequences; which may well include embarrassment, humiliation and pain - for all the world to see. No one should be heard to complain.

Sportsmanship, or the lack thereof, comes into play when the resulting embarrassment and/or humiliation may not be solely attributed to the rigors of competition, but something less honorable.

I already said prior comments were my last 2 cents, then last 4 cents. Add another 2 cents and I'm out of here. Hope you and yours get after em at state. Good luck!

KC Handballer

That might be one of the most asinine comparisons I’ve have ever seen on this forum. How in the hell can you compare someone being embarrassed to two psychopathic idiots like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold? Being bullied and being embarrassed in the sports arena are two completely different things.

First off when you step on the field (mat) of competition you have chosen to put your esteem on the line in order to gain recognition. Being bullied isn’t a choice!

If a person’s feelings and self esteem are so fragile that a little embarrassment ruins their life then that person wasn’t very well prepared for real life. Sports are not for everyone, especially, wrestling. And, yes, I have told my wrestlers they need to toughen up or being embarrassed is going continue to happen to them. Wrestling is quite possibly the toughest sport out there and that is why we have that other cute little sport called basketball for those who are not suited for one-on-one combative sports.

Everybody suffers embarrassment at some point in their life and like many have said on this subject it can be a learning tool. I challenge you find any solid evidence that there is any direct correlation between being embarrassed in sports and psychopathic behavior. You can’t!

“Dont come back with any football or baseball arguments. Wrestling is the most intimate and visible sport there is.”

Are you kidding me! Football is the most widely viewed sport there is in the U.S. If were going to pursue this topic then we need address other sports also. Football players should no longer be allowed to deliver a hard wrenching hit to another player because it could cause that person to go on a shooting rampage! Wow! The theoretical possibilities of train of thought could be astronomical.

I remember one young man on my wrestling team that took his share of these embarrassments during the early part of his wrestling career. He learned from these experiences that he had to work harder and be more focused to be successful.
He is now called Doctor.

Coach Neil-maybe one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum!

24/7

I agree with Neil. That last comparison was a little to far "out-there"!

Coach Neil,

Awesome! I am glad that you took the time to put that in perspective for KC (he doesn't like to be called Ballhandler) so that we can move on to more important stuff. Good luck to you, Symon, and the rest of the Bobcats!

I owe you a high five!

Sorry if my question upset your guys feelings...Slyter is good on the mat so no he doesnt have to take down let up his opponents. Although if your horrible on the mat and are unstopable on your feet then why not? Put on a take down clinic on every person you step on the mat with. I saw Jake Hoesli at the Concordia Abilene dual last year and he took his opponent down 9 times in under 50 seconds. If you dont want to look like a fool on the mat than work harder in the wrestling room.

I didnt mean to upset anybody by starting this topic...again all i wanted to know was how is Slyter doing. But im glad this topic started because its been interesting. There has been some great post towards both sides of the arument, is it un sportsman like to take down you opponent numerous times. The wrestler himself is the only one who can decided if by the ways hes wrestling is un sportsman like. If Slyter takes a first year kid down 15 times in 2 minutes he can either do it in a sportman like way or a un sportsman like way. wanting to dominate your opponent on the mat and make him wish he went would of went out for basketball is not being un sportsmen like. whether you think its true or not handballer.

If you have an abundance of slow twitch muscle fiber and your opponent has an abundance of fast twitch muscle fiber - then all the 'preperation' in the world is not going to change the outcome of a 'takedown clinic'.

Sometimes you just come up against a stronger, quicker 'horse'. No shame in that.

20 years ago I coached a kid going for his third straight state title. He put on a take-down clinic. His opponent 'took his beating like a man'. I got it on tape. For a lack of a better adjective - his (the one who lost) reaction was 'cute'. After getting teched in less than two minutes, he had a silly grin on his face as he shrugged his shoulders, raised his hands up and looked at his coach. Kind of a "what the heck could i do coach?" expression. Having wrestled his opponent several times myself - i felt the exact same way. I NEVER took him down. I could beat our undefeated 171 pounder because he was 'slow' like me. But, I had no chance EVER against our stealthy little 145 pounder. And, i was a solid 160 back then. I tried and tried. Every time I thought I had him - DARN! RATS! I had given up two AGAIN!!! After a while I just quit wrestling him! Too frustrating! ;-)

Back when Neb. was a power-house in football, Coach Osborne got the idea. He went out and recuited speed. THEN, he won his national titles. you can't coach quickness. Either you have it or you don't. I don't care how good of defensive technique you have, it would not have done you much good wrestling say John Smith in his prime. EVERYBODY knew the low single was coming. NOBODY could stop it . . .

Again, no shame in getting schooled by a stud. Take you 'beating like a man', learn what you can from it, AND MOVE ON!

Well said dwelsh. Would you agree with me that a wrestler can tech his opponent in the first period and do it with sportsmanship?

Most definitely. It happened to me many times.

Now, if after beating my 'weanie self' - they then proceed to kick me in the face (ala Vick at VT) and laugh and taunt me THEN they are being a poor sport.

But, the dudes that killed me, always did it with class and style. I embarrassed my self - they didn't embarrass me. This was a risk I willing to take when I stepped foot on the mat. Ya win some, ya lose some. Ideally we don't act like a jerk no matter what side of the 'coin we are on'.

Like the PATS coach - being the first to jog across the field and offer congrads to the Giants coach. Cool.

It just a game boys and everybody has a right to be a jerk if they want. Of course consequences come with being a jerk (ie. you probably wont have any friends) but thankfully in our country there is no law against it. If there was, my wife and a million others would have had me behind bars decades ago!

HAHAHA . . .