This has really been bugging me since Saturday when i witnessed the porest Father in the world. I steped out of the Expo Center and came upon what i believe was a father grabbing the arm of his son the next thing that happened was a total shock to me and my wife whice seen it all. The father grabs this young man and slams him up against the wall and grabs this young boy around the neck and starts choking him screaming in his face, with both hands wrapped around this childs neck. My wife instantly yelled at this father to let the boy go the father did let him go and started walking away we tried to stop the father but he just grabbed his boy and kept walked and told us to mind out own business.

He wore a black grey and orange outfit i am saddened that i could not recognize the team name. The father took his boy into the plaze hotel next to the expo center. The father yelled at us and told us to stay out of his business.

My wife and I were just blown smooth away. If this father is on here and reads this i would just ask you as a dad to step up and be noticed. You as a father should appoligize to your son, me an my wife and the wrestling community.

I set back and just wonder did this little boy go through alot more when his dad got him inside out of sight ? I hope not but from the looks of what he was doing im sure he did.

Hind sight tells me i should of done more but we did'nt. If anyone knows who i might be talking about please get ahold of me. I would like to know how the young man is doing.

Todd Kessler

I have to think there have been no replies to your post because we are all in shock. I commend you and your wife for speaking up and stopping this abuse at the time. It is hard to know what more you could have done. You can always hotline someone for child abuse, but to do that you have to know who they are.

It seems that I read in most every tournament flyer that verbal or physical abuse will not be tolerated, yet we continue to see or hear of these instances. I think the tournament organizers need to put more of an emphasis on enforcing this notice. What if every security officer on duty was told to watch for, stop or report these abuses?

Without any details or names, can anyone think of a single instance where this policy of not tolerating abuse was enforced?

OK, I'm gonna get roasted for saying this:

Let's not automatically assume that we didn't have an out of control kid, that mouthed off to his dad, coach, or referee, or opponent either. If my kid shows me or his coaches, or opponent, official, or opponents coach disrespect, there will be consequences. Of course, in today's society, you can't whip them in public. If it is not my kid, but one of the kids I coach, I know I can't whip them, but I can sure haul them back on the mat to pick up a thrown headgear, haul them over to shake his opponents hand with respect, or shake the coaches' hand with respect. My own son of course would be handled in private in a more severe way.

How many of us, honestly, have seen a kid throw a fit, and said " that kid needs his tail whooped"?

I do not have my head in the sand, and realize that this probably WAS an out of control dad that got his own dreams dashed by a loss by his kid.

But I also want everyone to make sure they do have the "right" to tell a dad how to discipline their kids, by knowing the facts first. It is entirely possible that the kid had refused to shake an opponents' hand, or the other coaches hand, or threw a head gear, or told someone off, or otherwise embarassed his team, family, or self.

I'm not good at sugarcoating, so wail away at me. I'm from the old school where a public whipping embarassed a kid enough to deter him from further problems. I also know some very good kids that have never had their butts whipped. So I guess, depending on the kids, it can work either way.

You're right...you are going to get roasted.

"The father grabs this young man and slams him up against the wall and grabs this young boy around the neck and starts choking him screaming in his face."

Under no circumstances is this behavior acceptable. This man belongs in handcuffs. Even if the boy punched the ref, bit his opponent, spit on the opposing coaches, and cursed at his father, that is no excuse for physical and verbal abuse. Sometimes we lose sight of who is the adult and who is the child.

I agree, it sounds like the Dad in this case was out of control no doubt.

I seen some bad hissy fits late yesterday that would have been my boy, he would have had a warm back side.

That is the funny thing, he knows that would happen and he has never even came close to a hissy fit.

Now in the same token whipin them for a "poor performance" is way wrong.

There is a difference in a spanking and physical abuse by this father. You are right no matter what he did choking and slaming him into the building is grounds for a nice little concrete hotel stay in a orange jump suit.

Yes, I enforced it at our tournament this year. It didn't happen until the championship round. The son was pressured so hard to win by his dad that when he was losing he bit the other kid. When his son was DQed he went off, cussing the official, charging the other dad and throwing things at the other father and cussing myself out when I threw him out. Everything was caught on tape. As a wrestling dad and coach for over 12yrs you see alot of things that are uncalled for. It is very sad for the kids, that the parents have to act like that. If they could only see the way they are acting and how stupid it is and how they are making their son or daughter feel, I know they love their child very much and sometimes it take a video tape to show them just how their actions are totaly uncalled for and that EVERYONE is watching them. To see a Dad with his hands around a childs neck, there is no telling what I would've done... in shock would have been first also, then anger....
The kids are doing their best. Yes some days they are just not there. I had that with my oldest at districts. He should have gone to state and placed but just didn't show up mentally. Yes I had to leave the gym for a bit before I talked to him. I didn't have to say anything. he knew he had screwed up. It wouldn't have done me any good to yell and scream at him. There is next year and it's only wrestling big deal. Thank God he is physically able to wrestle. It's not the end of the world. We as parents need to look at the big picture of our childs future not the short term. Acting like that they will hate the sport and you for how they feel. Sometimes we need to look in the mirror and face the truth, the kids are not the problem.

I agree that if he was actually choking him, it should not happen, period.

Or did he have both hands around him to make sure he is looking at him? I had to do that while the doctor put stitches in my daughters head one time.

How would you feel if you told the police that the dad was choking the kid, and he was actually holding the kid's head straight so that the kid was looking him in the eye, but the police believed you, and the kid was taken away from his father? I agree that there are some people that shouldn't be allowed to have kids, but most of the time, there is no incident that happens between a father and a son that they cannot put behind them and carry on their relationship.

I'll repeat, this WAS probably an out of control father. You embarassing him by calling him out probably took care of the problem. And this kid isn't going to be wrestling much longer anyway, so the situations that make his dad do these things will no longer occur.

Be VERY SURE that what you say and what you saw are the same thing though.

Just food for thought. Now you can go back to roasting me.

Let's remember that this is wrestling, and there is no kid that got to be great by being told that he is perfect all the time. Most of those kids quit working hard, because they aren't told that they have to work hard. Then, after winning 6u and 8u state championships, they wonder why they get it handed to them at 10u, 12u, 14u, and HS. And they blame the refs, or the other kid cut a bunch of weight and is bigger, or whatever excuse they can come up with to deny the fact that their competition has passed them by by out working them. Bringing them down and building them up go hand in hand.

Choking them out does not fit into the bringing them down part of that equation but some hollering is necessary sometimes.

It is always best to err on the side of protecting the kids. I think it is a scare tactic to suggest that child protective services is going to remove a kid from their home over one incident. But, maybe they do need to look deeper.

I wonder if some of the dads would tolerate some other adult treating their sons the way the dads do. If you would complain to the school board about a coach doing this to your son, why is it ok to do it yourself?

I don't agree with a lot of people's view that government should raise our kids, that's why.

I believe corporal punishment should be back in schools, so obviously you and I are going to differ on this issue.

I'm going to help you out Doug. My first year of wrestling, I was first year 12U. I loss a close match in sub-districts. I thought the other kid had stalled, and he may have, but he was the one ahead. After the match I threw a terrible fit, telling the kid to meet me out in the parking lot and we would finish this. My dad heard me, took me by both shoulders and slammed me up against the wall. He then grabbed me by the chin so we would be eye to eye, and told me I already had my chance to whip that kid. If I wanted another chance, it would be on the mat. He also informed me if I did not change my attitude there would not be a next time, because I would be done with wrestling.

Now was he right or wrong? In my opinion he handled it perfectly. I never threw another fit on the wrestling mat. To a passerby he may have looked abusive.

I will agree choking is wrong. By the way the dad reacted to the wife telling him to stop, this dad was probably wrong.

Well put. I think we've all been near or crossed that line, but there are some defining moments that point us in the right direction.

We all differ on what you find abusive. I look back and know that a lot of people would call the SRS if they had seen the marks pops put on me as a kid, but I know that I deserved them. If not for what he knew I did, but for what I got away with that he didn't know about also.

Losing a match wasn't the cause of any of the above "abuses". But poor attitude and bad choices was sometimes. And you can rest assured that he let me know that if I didn't work harder, I would be getting my butt handed to me, which, I'll be darned, he was right. At the time I didn't think that a guy that had never wrestled knew what he was talking about. Life lessons is what it is about. And if a kid has never been introduced to reality, controversy, etc. as a kid, how will he know how to react as an adult?

Thanks for making yourself clear. Your 2 views seem to be opposed - not wanting the government to raise your kids, but wanting corporal punishment in the school.

I think parents should hold themselves to a higher standard than anyone else. We must be the luckiest parents on earth because our 2 sons (both over 18) are good guys and we have not had to use corporal punishment. Not saying we did everything right, we just got lucky.

One more from me and then I'll let it go. A similar situation to the one you described above occurred in our family. All it took was me quietly stating that if this behavior ever occurred again, he would be “benched” or whatever the wrestling equivalent is. He knew I was serious without ever raising my voice and it worked. Four years later, never another problem with sportsmanship. Sometimes you might get surprising results trying something different and unexpected from what your kid usually sees from you. If I ever needed to employ stronger discipline, it would be over something much more serious than wrestling, say wearing seatbelts, substance abuse, cruelty, etc.

I do want to step back in and clarify myself. I know exactly what i witnessed the dad had his hands all the way around this childs neck. I don't care what kind fit this kid threw he did not deserve the abuse that he was obviously getting. I don't get real fired up and it takes alot for me to stick my nose into others business but i can assure anybody with doughts about my post or what i saw, it happened and i should of dialed 911 and held the father down on the ground myself.

Todd Kessler

"Whipping", "corporal punishment",...The witness seems quite sure of what he saw, and others should have no reason to doubt him. Anyone can rationalize taking their personal frustrations out on a kid, but absolutely nothing can justify what was described. It's no wonder kids burn out and don't want to keep at it. Some support and understanding sure beats physical abuse of a kid.

I guess that does sound opposing, but if I hand out corporal punishment at home, I would want the school to have my authority to hand it out there also. The government has said they don't want it, so lots of people automatically think that they are right. They can show you studies that say it isn't good for raising kids, and my point of view can be "proven" with other studies.

IndyDad, if that is what you saw, that is what you saw. You see what I am saying. You can see that there could be incidents that look like one thing, but unless all the facts are known, the way we feel about it could change.

Like I said, I think you have taken care of the situation by yelling at him, and the situation probably won't happen again because that kid won't wrestle much longer.

I would say it's not too late to call 911. If you seen the room he went into, they will find him. After this long of deliberation, you are sure what you saw, and you still feel the man should have consequences. I most generally tend to mind my own business, but someone has to look out for children that are being abused. I myself believe in a good ole fashion spanking when warranted. Lord knows I had my share. But, that is another subject to debate. Abuse (choking) is another. Do what is right, you were the witness.

And I would add that bringing names to this forum would only bring more embarrasment to the child.

"...there is no incident that happens between a father and a son that they cannot put behind them and carry on their relationship. "
Really Doug747?

I think my son (and his father) would beg to differ, not to mention my 4 older daughters. This incident is so similar to what my ex did to his son on a daily basis, that I won't let my son on this forum until this thread is buried. And as for "bringing them down to build them up..."? My son is 11, dad left when he was 8. All he heard in those 8 years (not just about wrestling, but EVERYTHING) was that he was: lazy, stupid, didn't try hard enough, didn't work hard enough... The poor kid still has trouble believing in himself. But with 3 years encouragement from family, friends and teachers he is getting better. But he is an angry little boy with a lot of self depreciation issues.

When anyone tried to intervene between father and son, and tell him to stop, whoever it was, was threatened. People were afraid of him. We are out of this abusive situation now. He lives in another state, far away. When he calls, no one wants to talk to him. My older daughters just don't answer their phones. I make the 2 younger ones talk to him. My son hangs up on him when he starts in on the verbal put downs. They have all refused all contact with him.

Moral of this story is: there is no grey area in abuse. Physical or verbal. It is or it isn't abuse. If you are hitting them, shoving them or grabbing them, it is abuse. If you are verbally putting them down, it is abuse. And THOSE memories will last a lifetime and WILL destroy a relationship. THOSE SCARS WON'T HEAL!