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6A 215 #141499 02/28/09 07:17 PM
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WrestlingFan14 Offline OP
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I would just like to thank the refree that did the Woten/Caylor match for kicking out Woten for cussing after he had just lost a match that would have sent him to the finals in his Senior year. I really don't understand why a kid would be emotional at all after a match like that. Thank you for the bogus fleeing call and stalling call that handed Caylor the match, and sparked the emotion. Thank you for leaving a lasting impression on a 17 year old that will never wrestle again in his life. A 17 year old kid that has wrestled since 5th grade and had never been kicked out of a tournament. Thank you for making his mom cry all the way back to Olathe. Thank you for not throwing another 215 pounder out that threw a punch, because cursing is a much more serious offense! What a great job you have done for the sport of wrestling and you certainly showed your authority.

Re: 6A 215 [Re: WrestlingFan14] #141560 03/01/09 04:29 AM
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The Junction City 215 pounder should have been in the finals anyway. He chased the guy around the entire semi final match and couldnt get stalling calls. The refs at the STATE TOURNAMENT cost alot of kids matches this wknd. Shouldnt be that way.


"Having potential without putting forth effort means nothing"
Re: 6A 215 [Re: Stand Up King] #141573 03/01/09 05:20 AM
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So cursing gets you thrown out, but throwing a punch doesn't? If that's the rule, it needs to change. A wrestler punched his opponent last year at state and didn't get tossed either. I don't get it.

Re: 6A 215 [Re: VQ09] #141574 03/01/09 05:34 AM
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Cursing should be unsportsmanlike conduct NOT flagrant misconduct. It sounds like, without knowing the officials side of the story, that an official was overzealous and decided to abuse his authority. It seems to happen more often in the post season than the regular season...


Will Cokeley
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Re: 6A 215 [Re: Cokeley] #141576 03/01/09 05:41 AM
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and it cost this young man (a senior no less) his place at state.

Re: 6A 215 [Re: VQ09] #141582 03/01/09 08:30 AM
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another one of those great officials being inconsistent. i agree officials work hard, but discussing what is allowed and what isn't should be discussed before the tournament. sorry guys sounds like someone blew this one.


"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
Re: 6A 215 [Re: Cokeley] #141610 03/01/09 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cokeley
Cursing should be unsportsmanlike conduct NOT flagrant misconduct. It sounds like, without knowing the officials side of the story, that an official was overzealous and decided to abuse his authority. It seems to happen more often in the post season than the regular season...


The involved referee assessed two post match unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and stated at the tournament scorer’s table he was giving the wrestler an early Christmas present by not kicking the wrestler out of the tournament. A high school athletic director, who was one of the tournament administrator’s, overheard the statement and asked me if that was the correct call. I informed the athletic director the rule book is clear, it states in the penalty section two post match unsportsmanlike conduct penalties is flagrant misconduct and the penalty is disqualification from the tournament, loss of three team points, and loss of all earned individual team points. The Athletic Director asked the official if he had checked the penalty chart (twice), and after NO reply I stated apparently not. After a conference of officials, the head official approached the scorer’s table and provided the correct ruling. It was not until the following morning I reviewed the bout sheet, which had numerous official notations, that I saw the curse word written on the bout sheet and was able to determine why the unfortunate wrestler was disqualified.

It was a very unfortunate ending to a young man's high school wrestling season.


Richard D. Salyer
Re: 6A 215 [Re: RichardDSalyer] #141623 03/01/09 03:01 PM
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What does the rule book say about punching an opponent?

Re: 6A 215 [Re: RichardDSalyer] #141625 03/01/09 03:02 PM
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So let me get this straight, was it the curse word that drew the 2 post match unsportsmanlike conduct penalties? just one curse word or did he go on a cursing rant? How can something that happened AFTER the match affect a match that has already ended? What types of behavior warrant post match penalties? I'm not taking sides either way here, just trying to understand the ruling. I for one, am a big believer in the "Win like a champion, Lose like a champion"


Summertime wrestling, makes wintertime champions
Re: 6A 215 [Re: powercat1] #141626 03/01/09 03:04 PM
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And who was it that supposedly threw a punch? that to me would seem like grounds for DQ


Summertime wrestling, makes wintertime champions
Re: 6A 215 [Re: RichardDSalyer] #141629 03/01/09 03:35 PM
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WrestlingFan14 Offline OP
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It was the end of his career. Not his season. His last match ever will be remembered not because of glory or disappointment, but because some refree blew a bunch of calls and then got his fellings hurt when he was questioned. Wrestling refs are the biggest babies in sports. When they are wrong, they never try to make it right they just go on and hope that the problems go away. You would think people that officiate such a tough sport would have thicker skin.

Re: 6A 215 [Re: WrestlingFan14] #141632 03/01/09 03:47 PM
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A Goddard wrestler punched his opponent from Junction City. And it wasn't "supposedly" because I and many others witnessed it.

Re: 6A 215 [Re: VQ09] #141635 03/01/09 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: VQ09
What does the rule book say about punching an opponent?

SECTION 12 FLAGRANT MISCONDUCT
ART. 1 . . . Flagrant misconduct on the part of Coaches or other Team Personnel are acts which:
a. the referee considers serious enough to remove the offender from the premises;
b. can occur prior to, during or after a match, including the use of tobacco products.

Flagrant misconduct shall be penalized in accordance with the Penalty Chart.
ART. 2 . . . Contestants:
a. Flagrant misconduct is any physical or nonphysical act which occurs before, during or after a match considered by the referee to be serious enough to disqualify a contestant from the match and any additional wrestling in a multiple school event.
b. Acts include, but are not limited to:
1. striking;
2. butting;
3. elbowing;
4. kicking an opponent;
5. use of any tobacco products.
c. If, in the opinion of the referee, a wrestler bites an opponent this will be deemed as intentional biting and will be called as flagrant misconduct.


Richard D. Salyer
Re: 6A 215 [Re: VQ09] #141638 03/01/09 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: VQ09
A Goddard wrestler punched his opponent from Junction City. And it wasn't "supposedly" because I and many others witnessed it.


A Godddard wrestler did not punch his opponent. He did punch towards the mat, not at his opponent. It did get him an unsportsmanlike penalty (which I agree was the correct call). If he would have hit his opponent he would have been kicked out. Please get your story correct and post your name if you're going to post such accusations.


"The days I can keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are good days" ~ Judy Hubbard
Re: 6A 215 [Re: Ryan Jilka] #141646 03/01/09 04:27 PM
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I guess it is "supposedly", because now someone else is saying that it didn't happen, and the Goddard kid was not DQed, so what I believe is that it didn't happen.


Summertime wrestling, makes wintertime champions
Re: 6A 215 [Re: Ryan Jilka] #141650 03/01/09 04:33 PM
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I saw the wrestler throw a punch at the other wrestler (not the mat); this wrestler was then examined by a trainer. The crowd watching it reacted very negatively; it wasn't only me who saw it. The point I'm trying to make is why wasn't this wrestler disqualified? The rules need to be enforced consistently.

Re: 6A 215 [Re: powercat1] #141651 03/01/09 04:34 PM
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Looking at the brackets, even if the Goddard kid had been DQed, it wouldn't have had any effect on the outcome of the bracket, Knudson still would have been in the 3rd place match and Hicks would have DQed to the fifth place match against the previously DQed, Woten.

Last edited by powercat1; 03/01/09 04:35 PM.

Summertime wrestling, makes wintertime champions
Re: 6A 215 [Re: WrestlingFan14] #141655 03/01/09 04:39 PM
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RichardDSalyer Offline
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Originally Posted By: WrestlingFan14
It was the end of his career. Not his season. His last match ever will be remembered not because of glory or disappointment, ...,
I concur and this is nearly my exact statement when discussing the matter.

Originally Posted By: WrestlingFan14
,... but because some refree blew a bunch of calls and then got his fellings hurt when he was questioned.
The match occurred directly in front of the scorers table and I watched this bout as I am from the Wichita area, I know the Wichita NW coaches, and due to my geographic location, was biased toward the Wichita wrestler. With no disrect intended, I did believe the Wichita NW wrestler was clearly the aggressor and felt the stalling call against the K.C. area wrestler was justified, and was a little late in coming. There were flurries and scrambles from both wrestlers and it was an outstanding match.

Originally Posted By: WrestlingFan14
,... Wrestling refs are the biggest babies in sports. When they are wrong, they never try to make it right they just go on and hope that the problems go away. You would think people that officiate such a tough sport would have thicker skin.
There are many, many excellent officials involved in our sport from all corners of the State.


Richard D. Salyer
Re: 6A 215 [Re: VQ09] #141657 03/01/09 04:48 PM
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Ryan Jilka Offline
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Originally Posted By: VQ09
I saw the wrestler throw a punch at the other wrestler (not the mat); this wrestler was then examined by a trainer. The crowd watching it reacted very negatively; it wasn't only me who saw it. The point I'm trying to make is why wasn't this wrestler disqualified? The rules need to be enforced consistently.


Because he DID NOT hit him. I won't argue your perspective of if it was going at the other wrestler. We'll have to agree to disagree. If the official thought it was intended to hit the other wrestler, he probably would have rightfully kicked him out. Obviously he did not. I don't recall why the other wrestler was looked at by the trainer, but I will tell you this; I had a very good view of the "punch" and it did not come close to the other boy. Your point is taken, but it is based on an incorrect assumption of the event.


"The days I can keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are good days" ~ Judy Hubbard
Re: 6A 215 [Re: powercat1] #141658 03/01/09 04:49 PM
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you know this was a great tournament and we witnessed many situations in fact I wished I could caught the flying headgear that was launched by the disgruntled wearer. anyway if this would have been the first time I heard woten talk this way I may feel sorry but this seems to roll of his tongue quit easily. happy trails young senior.

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