Wrestling up an age group in the state series gives the older kids an unfair advantage. If you feel that way why not just eliminate age groups entirely. That way all the kids would have the same disadvantage against the 16 year olds. See how that feels.

Lets stick to the issue of having age division appropriate weight groups that meet the needs of the athletes. Wrestling up is not a solution when it is not applied to everyone. Plus it might just open up a whole new can of worms in other age/weight groups.

Posted by sportsfano2 on another thread.

No, "we" don't! In fact, the over-whelming majority of coaches and parents never have a problem in regards to their own behavior and sportsmanship.
_________________________

Apparently calling parents or coaches "whiners" that have a legitimate complaint about their wrestlers who have worked hard all year not getting to wrestle at state is your idea of good behavior!
Anonymously calling people "whiners", what a stand-up guy you are!

Jason Murdock

You mean like high school? You think they only let the seniors wrestle seniors and juniors other juniors?


I have! The issue has been studied to death and has been the reason those heavyweight divisions have been eliminated. Unless you can provide hard data that supports your position?

I'm going to need an explanation of what that above quote has to do with this topic. Then while you're at it maybe you can provide us with the data as I suggested in the previous post that supports your position that we should provide a weight class for every kid who's parents or coach wants them to walk to a medal at state. I didn't call anyone a whiner but please stop whining.

spotsfan2,

I actually wrestled in high school for 4 years, so yes I know the difference. When I started their was an unlimited HWT div. so I know the difference there as well. High School has their own season apart from the kids for obvious reasons. By the time you get to high school you should have the maturity to wrestle older kids. Although I am sure some parents could argue with that as well. An eight, ten or even 12 year old is not the same, they don't respond the same way. I have already posted before that I am against 6 y/o wrestling at state for the same basic reasons. They are not mature enough as an age group to wrestle there. That is a coach/parent driven situation.

You seem to have the same kind of flawed mentality that a lot of people in authority positions take with larger kids. Just because your big doesn't mean you are more mature. My son may look 15 y/o but just turned 10 in late Dec. Everyone, it seems has higher expectations of him due to that. The fact is he is still ten and does what other ten year olds are doing and thinking. I am already dealing with the Jr High and High School girls confusion over him, not fun.

That is why we have age groups so that their is some equality in the maturity levels. Size is another way we break it down. Maturity, in my opinion is far more of an advantage than size when it comes to wrestling.

When you say studied to death, I have to take your word for it. I have never seen the data and prob never will. It would be nice to show you raw data to the contrary but I don't have access to it. If you happen to have it I would like to look at it. For now I go by the complaints I've see here from this year and from years past and also what I have seen at tournaments. That data tells me that there are many kids being left out. That is current data not date compiled 5 years ago. Nobody wants a free ride here just the opportunity to wrestle their own age bracket. What is the problem with that?

I just don't get what drives you to be so antagonistic in regards to this matter. Adding a heavy weight div to some of the younger divisions would not hurt anyone? Show me differently and explain to me why other neighboring states seem to handle it just fine and we can't.

I don't care to be called a "Whiner" but if that's what it takes to get it through to people then so be it. I like to think of myself as an Advocate of big kids and kids in general.

Hossus,

I totally agree with your post. I have an eight year old and he looks like he could be twelve. People do expect much more out of him. We also wrestled in the 10 and under bracket this year and did very well. But no way can we do that at a qualifying tournament. To sportfan02 I am sick of hearing how these kids just want to walk through state to get a medal. I have went to the kids state tournament for over twenty years and I have seen many of the lighter weights walk through with two matches and go home with an ego and a medal. So get off your soap box and quit acting like just because these kids are big they want an easy ride. That's a bunch of crap. And also about that medal you want to send out, you know where you can stick that. I think this is an issue you know nothing about.

Pam Washington

Please explain what High School has to do with this post?

All of that said, but having your son obtain a medal by not having anyone to wrestle at subs, districts and maybe a match or two at state would prove what?

I NEVER said the kids want to walk to a medal! It's the parents and coaches who want them to walk to a medal.

It might not prove anything. However it might just make them smile. It might make them work towards a goal for next year. It might make them love and promote the sport as an adult. It may teach them competition. It may give them a feeling of self worth.

want me to continue?

The point is they will eventually have to wrestle kids older than they are. Take a look at all of these dual tournaments so many are attending where the age groups are "elementary", "middle school" etc. I haven't attended any of these, but my guess is little Johnny isn't coming home heartbroken because he had to wrestle someone two years older then himself.

Yes, they will have to wrestle older kids eventually, like when they are in Jr High & High School 14+. Are you saying that if your heavy that you have to wrestle older kids. Double standards if you ask me.

Can't say I agree with the Elementary Duals either. But hey, at least the kids have that choice. It isn't forced upon them. They either want to do that for themselves or they choose not to go. In the state series these kids have no voice and no choice.

I did noticed they are trying to get as many kids as close to 6th grade as possible, wonder why? Either way, this has nothing to do with the criteria for our State Series.

i have comented on this subject, and read and re-read the posts on it! i have never heard once anyone for the hvy weight division once say anyhting about medals or anything of the sort!! ALL THEY HAVE SAID IS THAT THEY WANT THE OPPURTUNITY THAT ALL THE OTHER KIDS HAVE WHICH IS TO BE ABLE TO WRESTLE!!!!!!!!!
which i think is the reason why we are all here is for the furthering of kids thru wrestling!!!! is there such a reasoning, they say wrestle up, ok so if they weigh to little can they wrestle down a age bracket since there isnt one in there age bracket?? its sad when they are getting thrown to the wolves when you move up a age bracket its nite and day as far as maturity, physical and mental!!!
my 2 cents!!!!!

In my opinion, I hate it when kids "walk" to state. Why kind of competition are they getting? No matter what weight they are at. It ticks me off when they show the medal and say they placed, well ya, because you only had 1,2,3 etc. other people in your bracket. As for the elementary divison, look at the girls wrestling. My daughter wrestles at 10 and under 76lbs., but at girls tournaments she may have to wrestle a 12 year old. Does that bother me, no. Because it is making her better. Just my opinion.

As it will be when your child is a freshman in HS wrestling a Sr. in H.S. More so when your child is an 18 y.o. wrestling a 23 y.o. that has returned to the sport in college.

Keep in mind that in HS there are only two divisions once your over 200 lbs. They are: 215 and Heavyweight up to 285 lbs. So essentially if you can't cut to 215 you have a lot of wt to wrestle around with the big boys that have nearly 70 lbs on you.

I don't see the point if they weigh too little to wrestle down...making them wrestle up a weight class or so won't hurt. Our 3 lb increments in KS are pretty tight...Missouri has 5 lb increments.

Just a .02

Perhaps the best thing to do is find out right here just how many were cut out of the qualifiers due to a lack of unlimited heavyweight classes. If all of you that have one of these wrestlers, could simply post their age group, weight, and the sub-district in what number district you would have attended, we will match them up right here.

Good idea , while were at it why not find out exactly how many of the 8 and under 40-43 were actually 6 and unders. If were going to allow one age group to bump up an age to have the experience of wrestling at state why not all?
Patrick Lee from TOHK was the state champ at 8 and under heavyweight last year and placed high at Tulsa the last 2 years ,yet had no opportunity to wrestle at his home state tournament.I can guarantee he would of had no problem wrestling up at 10 and under.
It doesn't matter how many kids didn't get to wrestle , the fact is kids were not allowed to.
Either let them wrestle up or change it to an open ended heavyweight division.

Jason Murdock

I do like the idea of the open ended hwt. like 8U 125+, 10U 170+ & 12U 240+ if there isn't anyone in that group then you don't have to wrestle them. That would solve the problem and ensure that nobody got left behind. Let the parents & athletes decide on if they can manage the weight differences.

I wonder if there might be an issue with insurance liability if there were no limits on the weights? I hate to see kids get left out, but I also know from listening to my husband tell stories of when he wrestled heavy weight in high school at a time when there were no weight limits. that sometimes unlimited is a HUGE difference.