Smoky,

I am a little confused here.

How is having a tournament which is already going on moved to a different location truly going to affect the brain of a 6 year old?

Last I checked no one is forced to take their 6 year old to ANY tournament let alone a State tournament. The simple fact remains is as long as a 6&U state exists at Ottawa there is always going to be a group of 6&Us who want to attend a state tournament, and another group that is "forced" to attend the tournament because their parent(s) think that is what they want to do.

Simply adding 6&U to the official USAWKS state tournament is just a change of venue. In my opinion there is very little that is negative about this. Those champions at Ottawa are told by their parents and everyone else that they are "State champions" whether they understand it or not. The same would be true if they wrestled in Topeka. I have had the pleasure of working with every age group in my capacity and I seen 6&Us get far more excited about winning than a 16 year has. I've also seen 16 years olds take defeat far worse than a 6 year old has.

Having a 6&U at USAWKS State is about giving these guys the same opportunity as the age groups above them. It doesn't mean that they or their parents have to attend the event.

As far as kids getting burnt out is concerned, that is always going to happen, and in most cases its not the fault of USAWKS the organization, it is the fault of the parents.

wrestlingspectat

I to am confused. Get it on the state agenda this coming fall and vote on it. Maybe I am the only crazy one who still thinks it is to early for a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 year old 6 & under state tournament. You all no my NO vote.

Sean McCarthy

One big difference between the current venue/format and adding them to the other state tournament is in the qualifying. Ottawa is an open tournament. There is no must place in the top four twice or your season is over pressure.

I don't have a vote as I am not affiliated with any club. I would definately vote yes on it though.

We are not asking for 1,2,3,4,5. Just adding 6U to State. If USA Kids can recognize kids 6U why can't Kansas ?

How can you say we are in trouble when the 6U age group is the largest group of wrestlers we have and these are the kids that will be the 8, 10, 12, 14 & 16 year old wrestlers some day. I am not in anyway trying to damage this great sport just trying to help facilitate a little change to make the sport better.

Give yourself an honest answer to these questions.

What percentage of the 6 and under kids from your club were still wrestling at the end of the year? Are they really the largest group in your club by the end of the regular season?

At Park City (perhaps the premier tournament in Kansas) which is the weekend before subs, 6 and under has the fewest competitors. Less competitors than any age group including 16 and under.

6u should be added and we can best accomodate this and the burn out issue by splitting our state series up. The 6, 8, and 10's should finish the weekend before HS regionals. The qualifying series would be subs, dist and then a state. The venues could be rotated around the state. The state tournament could be a one day event. Kids could be finished or they could choose to continue in the various national events around the midwest.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to add 6U to the current format. The State Tournament is TOO BIG for Topeka in its present format. If you addded 6U's it would explode! It is unfair to the rest of the state to have the tournament in the same district every year. Topeka has had it for 23 years. It is time for a change that promotes change and growth. Attend this Sunday's meeting in Salina and voice your concerns, opinions, and find out the truth about what is going on at an Executive Board meeting.

Your taking me a little out of context. What I said we were in trouble for was the remark that 6/under is this sports lifeblood & 6/under is what will keep this sport growing. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not against 6/under wrestling, my youngest son was exactly that this last season. What I am saying is that a 6 year old will not make or break this sport. This is a very complex sport that takes hours & hours of drilling, practice, sacrifice etc. & the vast majority of 6 year olds that I see roll around on the mat & make everyone smile. Are there exceptions to this rule? Sure. Why not explain to your 6 year old that with some things in life dues have to be paid & at 6 there just not yet. I think the numbers are also off a little about the largest group of wrestlers being 6/under. This group buys the most cards, but that does not mean this is the largest group of wrestlers. This age spends alot of money at the first of the year buying cards, singlets, shoes, sweats etc. but by the time State rolls around many have taken there wrestling shoes off for the last time. I could really care less if there is a 6/under added to State. My youngest wrestled 6/under & was done the week before Subs. He will not be scarred from this, he does not feel slighted. Why? Because he is 6! More nintendo time in the bleachers. He is moving on to 8/under next year where he may or may not want to wrestle the qualifying tournaments. And you know, thats ok with me. For goodness sakes we're talking about very young boys & girls. 4 the sport, I appreciate your passion for wrestling & it's noble that you are fighting the same fight that gets fought on this forum every year. Please keep in mind there are worse things then not having a 6/under division at the State tournament. Good luck the rest of the year if your little one is still going, even if he's not good luck to you.

Thank you for your sincerity. I did not try to offend by my statement. I too have a 6U 8U 10U 12U and my oldest is 23 and my grandson is now 3. I have been coaching for 14 years and will continue to coach for many more years. This is not a battle for just my 6U it is for those 6U that show they are ready. Look at State this year. There were several 6U competing at 8U against those kids and my son had to wrestle a 8U he is 5 and my 8U had to wrestle a 6U. No complaints either way. I just want them to have the option as a group. This is going to go on for many years if we do not give them a chance to make the decision ( with their parents).

Thanks

the reason there are fewer 6 and under kids at the end is they know they will not be able to beat a 9 year old kid. thats more likely the reason parents start pulling their kids toward the end of the season. Not all parents do this cause there are a few 6 year old kids that can compete at the 8 year old level. far and few in between. I pulled my kid because I came to realization that my kid could not compete with the 7,8 and 9 year olds. I do really like Cokelys idea to a point. I do think that the season should end before highschool state. That way if the highschool kids want to continue then its freestyle time. We can also have a highschool grand state the week after state. That wont happen if the highschool kids get a 2nd chance at kids state. get it highschool state and kids state. kids state is for kids.

I am sure that there are a number of U6 wrestlers who develop (mentally and physically) at a quicker pace than most do at that age. These young wrestlers have a natural (genetic) edge over their competition. I would bet that a majority of the youth wrestling in U6 are just trying to figure out how to shoot a double leg, execute a stand up and run a half nelson. Therefore, the majority of the wrestlers in this age category should spend two or three years (especially if they start at 4 or 5 years of age) learning the basics well enough to compete at the next level (U8). By then, they should be chomping at the bit to wrestle their first State Qualifier tournament.

I argued for a 6 and under addition at State for several years. Sent proposals to the board, never heard back. I think its pretty straight forward.
The six and unders pay the majority of the money in memberships to the State and then the State doesn't allow them the chance to be part of the State Tournament. They do offer them the opportunity to wrestle up an age group, really doesn't seem fair to do that to them but they do offer that option. This is something that others in different threads griped about a wrestler doing this year at another age group level. Since the venue is too small they say for the six and unders I proposed using the USAW age and weights to eliminate some of the different weight classes and make the tourney the appropriate size. I have also proposed that we take turns giving each age group the opportunity to wrestle up different years and see how that group enjoys the experience. Perhaps next year the 12 and unders would all have to wrestle 14 and under to go to state, probably not something they would enjoy but its supposed to be good enough for the six and unders.

None of this would be a problem if the State would pay someone to host a tourney for them if the venue isn't large enough to have them as part of it. But it doesn't appear that it happens that way. It appears they take their money and then tell them to wait.

Maybe I am wrong for looking at it this way. People have probably criticized how much or how often I let my son wrestle at that young age. The thought that he wrestled too much at a young age doesn't seem to be affecting him the way others say it would.

I also don't see wrestling at a young age burning out wrestlers. I don't think wrestlers get burnt out, they get beat out when hard work and proper instruction starts to beat out the kids who are athletic and could win using only athleticism at a young age.

I fully support a six and under group at state or I fully support the state giving the money they collect from the six and unders to someone else to host a touney for them.

While on the economics of wrestling, I do think more kids at the State tourney would only offer the State more financial support from parents and fans of the six and unders. When I attend split format meets it is routine to watch the gym be very empty when the 12 and under and 14 and under wrestlers are competing as compared to the 6, 8 and 10 and under groups.

Good luck on tax day, I would have given you two cents worth, but the government took it this morning.

Jeff,

While I always appreciate your comments, I must point out that the state tournament is not really funded by the USAW membership money. The participants pay an entry fee of $20.00 for the state tournament, the spectators pay to enter the event, and everybody who goes pays approximately $1000 for hot dogs and
dip n dots.

The USAW membership money pays for insurance and supports the national organization, although through it's support of the state organization I suppose you could argue that a fraction of the money benefits the state tournament. It is the best dollar value we have ever spent, state tournament or not.

You could also argue that the 6 and unders are benefitting from the many years of contributions of the 14 and unders who have stuck with it and paid many years of memberships, whose families have set up clubs, hosted tournaments, coached, volunteered and created special opportunities for the 6 and unders.

Your kid has not burned out, you are very fortunate and I am happy for you. I have been told that approximately 80% of our six and unders do not make it to 14 and under. I don't know how reliable this number is, and I don't know how to confirm it, but based upon my experience, it seems possible. I do know that 50% of the 2004 six and under STATE CHAMPIONS from Ottawa did not compete at this years kids state championship. I did the math. In 5 years, one half have gone from state champs to not even there.

Like it or not, the future of Kansas wrestling is most likely in the hands of the kids who are still there at 8 and under.

As per Kathy Juby in 2007 "For coaches cards we keep $15 per card. For competitors we keep $10 per card." This amount may have changed since that statement was provided. There were 1938 6 and under wrestlers in this season. From those 6 and under card purchases the state organization received 19,380 dollars.

The success wrestlers have changes. It changes as they learn from quality instruction and they develop competition habits that benifit them.

I believe those 1938 6 and under wrestlers paid 19,380 dollars to the state organization for a service they aren't receiving.

So you think the entire 19,380 goes to the state tournament?

are 6 and unders members of kansas usa wrestling??? YES
are they any different than any other age group? NO
KIDS ARE KIDS????? YES
SO PUT 6 ANDS UNDER IN THE STATE TOURNEY AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!!!
and yes i know my caps are on!!! just doesnt make sense how a membership body!! ie,, 6 and under isnt already in the state champs at topeka!! if there isnt room there then figure out somewhere where there is room to have 6 and under at state!!!!
simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my 2 cents but its only a penny since its tax day!!!!!!!!!!!

ya i too beleive 6&u should be at state in topeka,,
i took my son who still has 1 more year of 6u to ottawa for the 6u state,, he loved it and thought it was pretty cool, even though the bracket seedings are all jacked up, but when your 6u you dont really understand the seeding,, however i took my boy to watch the rest of his club and teammates that he practiced hard with for 5 months 3 days a week for 2 hours, wrestle at state in topeka,, and he was amazed ,, and he asked me "why cant i wrestle here dad?" i told him i have no idea, except your not old enough. unless you want to wrestle kids a couple years older than you,, and he said ya. hes willing to wrestle kids 2 yrs older than him just so he can have the opportunity to wrestle state with all his TEAMMATES and wrestling partners

USA Wrestling Age and Weight Divisions - 2009!

The lowest age division recognized by USA Wrestling is:
Bantam - Born 2001 & 2002

The Bantam age division is for seven (7) and eight (8) year old wrestlers.

ASICS USA Wrestling Folkstyle National Championships

hmmm, why would they sell wrestling cards to kids with birthdates in 2003, 2004, 2005 ?

is it just for the money?