I would never enter into this discussion but I would offer that the Kids State results are somewhat skewed because there are more weight classes which spreads out the talent. Also as we all know many wrestlers choose not to wrestle at the end of the high school season.

Its the closest thing we have to a Grand State Tournament, even if it isn't completely a completely accurate measure.

Nastyway,

My guess is you wouldnt of made it out of the Norton regionals this year hahahaha. And your right in saying Rogers and Floyd are tough, but to name a few that I think can hang with and beat anyone in the state Jace Campbell, Salamans (HX), Troy Bainter, Trevor Oliver, Billy Brocklmen, Zach Hoehn, Jared Rice, and last Dylan Schumacher. I would like to outline the part where I said "can hang with and beat". Can...have the ability and potential to. Im not saying in stone they would "beat"....but I will say for sure they would compete and in some cases win.

I didnt say they "would" win, I didnt say they "definitley" win...I said "can." In most cases I would probably bet on 5a or 6a kid, but wouldnt be shocked if it was a close match or upset. Each of the young men I mentioned I know very well, believe it or not nastyway we can get around pretty good in our "horse and buggies" (as you previoulsy have said) and none of them would switch there wrestling careers or abilities for any of us talking on this thread. They deserve your respect as do many other 321a wrestlers. Im not sure you deserve theirs however.

Nothing gets past Coach Moore!! But Mr. Steiger gave a much better, more reasoned response than I would have.

We will never settle the question of which class is tougher, but you have a better chance of qualifying for state in 8 man regionals than you do in 16 man regionals

All I would say is, twice I was good enough to get out of my own regional, and twice I was not as fortunate. The western Kansas 4A regionals were and are a bastard. Freshman year 3-2 @ 103 = No State, Sophomore year 4-1 @ 119 = State, Junior year 3-2 @ 130 = No State, Senior Year 5-1 @ 145 = State. So yes, I do get a little frustrated when a 1-2 record qualifies for state and people say there is no difference. As a coach, there were years where I had some good young kids, not world beaters, but hard workers who I would have loved to enter in to a 5A regional. They would have had a 50% chance of qualifying versus a 25% in 4A. I like those odds. The end result would probably have been the same, but qualifying for state apparently means something. I can also say that I was able to get some kids through an eastern regional that probably would not have been as fortunate in the western regional. So that kind of tells you what I think without having to actually say it. I am fairly certain that all 4 class state champions from 1992 would have, and some did, hammer me so I can’t say for certain which class is toughest, but I can say where your better odds are.

I am also an idiot for always losing in the quarter-finals. Geez.

There were at least 3 kids state champs staying home from the 4a west regional. (all from Russell and all Freshmen)
Schumacher, Rogers and Floyd place high in any class.
5 and 6a are probably the toughest to win but you are already taking 50%. One more round and you could just take all 32.
You cannot control everything but you have some control over where you live or at least which school your kid attends

In 6A and 5A, theoretically half the kids that wrestle varsity make it to state. In actuality, with so many open spots, the percentage of kids that make state is above 50%. Then you combine that with the glaring disparity in the quality of regionals, you are going to get some very weak wrestlers that qualify. The free passes even compound the problem. My point is, by sending so many average wrestlers to state, you are diminishing the accomplishments, hard work and glory of the outstanding wrestlers. When compared to some other states in wrestling, the Kanas State qualifier is perceived to lack credibility.
Here's a question to the community and coaches: What would motivate and make a kid work harder? To have a goal to qualify under the current (easy) system of regionals or to participate in a qualiication tournament where you had to beat 4 or 5 kids to qualify for state, which also promotes respect for the kid.

My two cents is that if you put that state qualifier patch on your letter jacket, it should mean more than just weighing in.

But it's OK for you to come onto this forum and be disrespectful to HS kids while being nameless. Some of those 5a and 6a kids worked all year, put in the time in Gr/Fs, wrestling kids from other states (and classes) so that they would go to state and qualify just like the kids in the other classes. They weren't hitting the gym every morning or leaving practice saying, "man I am glad I am in 6a so it's easy to qualify." Give me a break. They bust their butt like everyone else, with whatever hand dealt to them by KSSHA, and then to have nameless people on a forum tell them that they're "weak" wrestlers and diminish the accomplishments of the other outstanding wrestlers in the state.

Just strikes a bad chord in me!

I agree, great comments.
My only point is that it is not accurate to say that it's easier to qualify in 5A and 6A as indicated by the losing records.

Good post, I appreciate what you are saying.
But again, if the losing record thing is such a problem, everyone should get on the association and not the forum. Its the regional alignment that is the problem. My son had two good kids in his bracket with good winning records. I beleive that they would have placed in one of the other regionals. So, if the regionals were aligned, which I realize is not that easy after all they are "region"als, you would think that you would have fewer losing records. The losing record thing is just way past annoying to me.

That's what the H... I'm talking about!

IMHO,

Kansas needs a "do over" on the wrestling classification break down. If it's a must to have four classes why not equally divide the wrestling schools?

If I have it correct, there are 208 schools with wrestling in KS. 208/4 = 52 per class. Cl6=52 teams with the highest enrollment and so on.

Divide the 52 into 4 regionals/districs based on location as best as possible. This way there are 13 schools at every regional/district.

Of course this wont kill the argument that some regionals are tougher/weaker but it does create a fair system to qualify for state across the board regardless of class.

In this system you may have a clssification for wrestling that doesn't align with your normal classification.

I think some people lose track of the reality of the situation. In 5A and 6A there might not be as many teams participating in regionals, but those same varsity wrestlers are competing for their spot on the team with everyone else that goes to their school. 6A schools range from 1066-1558 students. 5A ranges from 521-977. 4A ranges from 190-506 and 3-2-1A ranges from 19-190.

Some 6A and 5A teams might have some missing weight classes or weaker competition in certain weight classes, but in some weight classes you can have kids fighting just to crack the starting line-up.

In the end, it doesn't matter what class you wrestle in. What matters is the competition you face. There might be state champions that would have lost to kids in other divisions or even state placers that wouldn't have placed in a different bracket. Unless you have a crystal ball, we will never know. I say wrestle the kid they put on the bracket to face you and let the best wrestler win. In the end, six kids will stand on the podium and they should be proud of what they have accomplished, regardless of whether they are 6A, 5A, 4A, or 3-2-1A.

I guess I'll take my turn beating the dead horse. I've coached 6, 5, & 321A and wrestled 4 & 5A. I'm not completely biased here. HOWEVER, nothing about a bracket diminishes the accomplishments of the champion. That's bunk. I guess I could say that kids that make varsity without having to challenge for a spot (happens in all divisions) diminishes the accomplishments of everyone that beats that kid????? In Goddard one year, we were eight deep at two weights. That meant it was tougher to make varsity than getting out of some regionals. I guarantee we had a couple of kids every year on JV that were state placers if there was a spot for them on varsity. Don't tell me that because there were some schools that couldn't fill their roster, the state champions had tainted victories.

By the way, if a kid has a losing record, but has beat kids with winning records that also made it to state, should those he beat get bashed too? I mean, they must have wrestled weak competition, "diminishing" the championships. Or was it that the schedule was extremely tough (SJA)? Or perhaps, the kid got better as the year went on, peaking at the right time? You see, too many what ifs.

I'd love to see two regionals for 5 and 6A. Or, let's take all of the teams in the state and make 2 divisions based on size and wrestle it out in a 32 man bracket. But until this happens, there will be some losing records making it to state, some kids that would never make varsity in other schools making it to state, and some kids that would qualify in other regionals making it to state. But none of this diminishes a championship! The champion did all he could do by winning what was put in front of him.

So your saying all 1500 kids try-out for wrestling? I knid of doubt that. The HS in my community has an enrollment of right around 1700 kids. The most I have ever seen in the room to start a season is 40 kids. Of course that number is culled by 10-20 after the first couple weeks of the season once the "team hunters" realize the commitment involved.

The point being, wrestling is wrestling regardless of how many kids are at a given school. This isn't football where every athlete has a chance to be competitive based on God given ability. Our sport is unique in that the technical aspect of it requires more than physical ability, which is the reason class enrollment breaks aren't really necessary.

Before you jump on me...I know we live in a kinder gentler world where we teach our children that failure is an impossibility. So in this world we require a 4 class system with 56 champs. See my post above for the method of making it as equal as possible.

No I'm not saying all 1500 try out. I'm saying you are more likely to have 40 kids coming out for the team than if your school has 100 kids and you are the only one at your weight. At least you have to be better than somebody to make varsity. It's kind of like the complaint about walking into state at certain weight classes. Some of these kids are walking onto varsity spots.

Oh that poor horse I hope he was dead before they started beating it or PETA will go crazy. Suck it up and wrestle quit crying. Poor horse.

5a 125 this year a kid with 0 wins. 0 wins at state i mean how can you even argue.
5a 2 kids with a 2-6 record
5a 1 kids with a 1-3 record.

don't get caught up on wins lucas baker, brian melchiori and temeor terry come to mind as two wrestlers who would have place anytime in any class, with poor records heading to state. both were hurt during f-ball and sat out most of the season. i know some ark city kids who couldn't make their own varsity, yet beat hs state champs in usa kids.

look at it this way no one will be crowned champ unless they go undefeated this weekend, NO ONE. ALL OF THE POOOOOOOOR SMALL SCHOOL PEOPLE, QUIT LOOKING FOR EXCUSES. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM FOR EXCUSES IN WRESTLING. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR EXCUSES OR AN EASY WAY OUT JUMP SHIP, AND BECOME A PUMPKIN POUNDER.