When a wrestler has a cross body ride with one arm around neck and one around shoulder (opposite sides) and locked hands legal. I thought rule was you could not put hands on nose, mouth, trachea area or carotid area for safety reasons. I seen several of these moves with kids choked out. One standing up with the kid on his back doing this. The force of the pull from opposite sides in itself is a choke hold. Just wondering cause if it is perfectly legal then I will teach my kid this move, cause it obvioulsly works. I just thought you could not put your hands, arms around the neck in that fashion. Have seen alot of cross body rides with power halfs, etc. but this one seems to do the job. Just wondering?

I'm not sure if this answers the question, but once nearfall criteria has been met the offensive wrestler can lock his hands without an arm when applying the guillotine. While this is quite painful for the bottom man, I've never seen a bottom man actually get "choked out" or knocked unconscious due to this move.

None of the 3 boys I seen this applied on were unconscious or close to that. Just I guess...felt choked and were grabbing throats and acting like they could not get air. Just wondering to teach this move or not??? Must be legal. I have seen it at many tournaments.

It is a good legal move, and it is the actual finish to the guillotine. If you have a leg rider on your squad I would highly suggest teaching it.

Any time a hold restricts breathing or restricts circulation it is illegal. However, it it not called illegal in many situations but is either called potentially dangerous (match stops) or just allowed to continue. Many coaches get upset when you let a kid off his back because of a choke hold.

When a wrestler has met near fall criteria a choke or strangulation hold should only be stopped after you have pinned the defensive wrestler. A good official will get this done before the defensive wrestler loses consciousness.

And a good wrestler does not need a choke in order to achieve a pin.

your correct, but alot of times I feel the kid is faking being choked as well to get out of a for sure pin hold. Happens all the time, the kid makes a choking noise to have the match stopped. If the kid is making noise, they can also get air. I also agree with Cokeley a good ref will, most of the time, pin the kid before the match needs to be stopped due to a choke.

If you can hear the kid say I'm getting choked or sounds like he's just breathing heavily he's probably not getting choked, but you do have to watch where the pressure on the neck is being applied but usually it's safe.

I'm pretty sure a "choke or strangulation hold" is illegal and should be stopped at any time. If the defensive wrestler does lose consciousness he should be declared the winner. This is not MMA.

Lets be clear.... A GOOD REF enforces the rules. When choking is involved he should enforce the penalty and award points accordingly as they were scored. The only time a ref should continue to look for the pin is if the athlete is clearly making noises with restriction to the throat area. Refs are not GODS and therefore cannot determine intent. Choking is choking and is not necessary skill to achieve a pin.

Just because they wrestler being choked or nearly choked is making noise does not mean there isn't a problem. I agree with the ones that say choking is NOT necessary to win. There are kids that use this method way too much!!!

Will is kidding, that's what the little smiley face imparts....

I know Will is kidding, but there are some real dummies on this site that don't. I wouldn't put it past them to start teaching legal chokes to little guys.

"Unneecessary roughness is Necessary" sometimes. If it's a legal choke and it's effective than I don't see the problem. This may not be MMA but every MMA fighter knows that a choke hold doesn't actually restrict the airway. When you apply a choke in MMA your actually cutting off the blood flow to the brain by applying pressure to the artery on the side of your neck. When done correctly your opponent passes out due to restricted blood flow not restricted air.
I guess the question is when is unnecessary roughness necessary. Alex47 if it's legal and it's affective I don't see why you wouldn't teach it to your kids.

Most of you keep saying near fall. The times I have seen it the defending boy is not on his back. The offensive wrestler is on the defending wrestlers back. There is no pin situation or back points being awarded. Merely, a move to attempt to turn a boy. Cross body ride with arm and neck involved. Sometimes high on the ride... Offensive wrestler pulling to side or upwards when riding high. Any difference? Just trying to figure this one out, LOL!

I'm starting to wonder if I fully understand what you're describing.

That being said, locking the hands around the neck on a guillotine without an arm is ILLEGAL until nearfall criteria has been met. It can't be used "to turn a boy." It can only be applied after he has been turned.

I can't say I've seen a crossbody with an arm and head. Are you referring to a side headlock with the leg laced?

There is no such thing as a legal choke.
I assume this guy thinks he is an MMA fighter, and is probably teaching "MMA holds" to his wrestlers. Cutting off Blood Circulation is also illegal, even if done with a legal move. This guy is the reason I commented on Will's post earlier. There are people out there, like this guy, that have no idea what wrestling is. Just because they have a coaches card does not mean they should coach. I would like to know what club this guy is from, so when we wrestle them I can inform the official to watch out for illegal moves.

Looks like I called this one just in time.

Wow! Beeson you really know how to take things out of context and you know who I am don't act like you don't. Theres alot of legal moves that restrict the airway that all coaches coach (headlock,reverse headlock, front headlock) and even though legal when applied with pressure thay tend to choke. There are alot of legal moves that apply pressure to the neck area. Just this year I witnessed a young man pass out from a headlock applied during a dual. The young man was pinned and when the top wrestler released him he was passed out. Do you not show your kids to squeeze and lift the head. I don't condone or teach moves that are intended to make opponents pass out. I teach hard nose wrestling that's very physical.I said in my previous post if it's legal than why not teach it. LEGAL BEESON don't read between the lines.
As far as your insults I won't stoop to your level. My kids respect me my coaches believe in our system and we are having success. Your comments only show you short temper and lack of reason. Ark City is a very good team and I would never disrespect you the way you did me. Good luck to you this weekend I'll see you in Maize!