Wow, I actually like everyone posting on here that I know and believe that some good points are made in each of the posts. Saying that, let me offer my two cents.

As a parent I personally hate all day tournaments. As a coach it don't matter other than I want my kids and parents to be happy. I am generally there all day, unless like this last week I get a little under the weather. That being said, I think it is important to do as Lemon says, to grow the sport. With little kids especially, and their parents, of which many are new to the sport, you have to give them something to fall in love with before you can put up with the bad parts, like an all day tournament and a full day commitment. For those of us who are married, if we had known about the bad, little things, like squeezing the toothpaste in the middle of the tube, of our spouse at first we may have likely never gotten married. After falling in love though, we tend to overlook the little things, at least most of the time.

Vince is also right, I watched Iowa and Penn State Dual on TV some this weekend, watched the Super Bowl, and that is about it for the week. My yard is flooded, I had to help clean house for a super bowl party and still need to help my wife in cleaning the carpet. Truth is, our house is a mess, (at least to me) because my wife nor I don't have much time to give it due to wrestling and jobs, and I don't think we are much different than many other families in that regard. Therefore, Nigel, I do believe the comment about sitting on the butt to watch TV was a little overboard. Families that work through the week normally only have 1 or 2 days at most to get things done. Also remember, many have seemed to have forgotten in the wrestling community that some families still go to church so that takes away one day, enough there.

Now as to concessions. Lemon, I have heard people say that one of the reasons they don't like the split format is because it cuts into their concession sales. I don’t dispute this as a reason and believe that Nigel makes a good point here. I don’t hear him saying that is right, just that is what people believe. I believe that in the long run that if running split tournaments though that that will balance itself out with additional numbers of people who attend. If having two tournaments in the same district, one a split session, another not, I would choose myself to go to the split session as I am sure most people would, even as a coach. Thus, that tournament has the potential to increase numbers over time. Valley Center ran a great tournament this weekend, a split session, and had to turn people away. I know that next year we will also attend that tournament as a club due to the wonderful experience there.

That does not change the fact though that some see it cutting into concession sales. Now before some become critical of that point, understand that I also fully support a club's right to make money so that becomes a legitimate concern. Often times that money assists the club with costs, or the club uses those funds to help and reward the kids. I think this is okay and I fully support it. It is just that clubs that are running a split tournament might need to look at additional ways to increase revenues if that is an issue. They may need to have a concession stand, plus have a raffle. In Oklahoma, we used to set up some of the tournaments so that for each session you had at least one meal time in there, for example, early breakfast, afternoon, or even having a supper session, I think that the Catoosa tournament for example still does that. It is just a matter of being innovative and maybe doing something different. I know that Derby is even exploring the Nebraska format right now. This would also cut into concession sales but allow you to have more kids wrestle and then those individuals be there for no more than 3 hours.

Next year my son is in high school. I'll help coach some on the kids level but plan on officiating as well. I want to stay involved with the sport and believe that, especially the young kids and those new to wrestling, it is important to make it as convenient for them as possible. Once they fall in love with the sport, they won't mind so much being there all day at a state or national tournament, but even in many places those tournaments are going to a split format.

The BLUE DIVIDER!

We got to the school Friday night to start setting up after the basketball game and were told by school staff that Friday morning the pulleys had broken and they could do nothing with it. The service line was called to the manufacturer of the divider. They have to order parts to replace broken pulley device. We offered to tie the divider up using a genie lift and rope but school custodial staff would not let us do it.

As you know in years past it is typically and will always be rolled up and out of the way.

I apologize for this inconvenience as I too was frustrated with the whole situation regarding this BLUE DIVIDER!!

I hope overall those who came had an enjoyable experience.


Jeff Broadbent - MVWC

Jeff, thanks for the explaination of the blue divider! Overall, it was a very nice tournament.

I know that my opinion on this subject is in the minority and that is okay. The only nice thing I can think of is I know there will always be traditional tournaments around, and High school tournys are always traditional format or dual format so thats a good thing.

Nigel, my son only has a half a season of kids left before high school. It doesn't look like I'm going to convert you in that time. From the looks of things though there are plenty of others that will continue to spar with you on this issue. Next year you will probably have to deal with me more on the high school forum. Rest easy about one thing. At this point I don't see that split tournaments are applicable in high school either.

After 13 years of following my kids and husband to wrestling tournys, I wish we would of had split tournys then. If you have ever tried to keep young wrestlers focused for 8-10 hours it is quiet the chore. The gyms were hot, loud, crowded, and uncomfortable., Coaches and refs were tired and grouchy by the end of the day,as were the parents. People couldn't see the matches because there were so many people standing around the mats. As a teacher I know how important it is to cover all the really important things in the morning while the young children are fresh, it is the same in wrestling, the kids are fired and ready in the morning, by afternoon they are tired and are more worried about playing around with the other little kids than thinking about wrestling. You may say the dedicated wrestlers are ready all day, well, I don't care how dedicated they are, after 8 hours of sitting around and only wrestling 3-4 times if they are on the bottom side and maybe only twice if they are on the top side, they are ready to leave.

I was at Mill valley tourney and it was the best kids tournament I have ever been to. Every tournament should be run like this. If your club has to rely on the little extra money it will make be keeping people around for an extra 3 or 4 hours then try another money maker. Great job Mill Valley we will be back next year. I wonder how many more parents would be open to letting there kids be invovled in wrestling if they knew they would be done by noon on Saturday.

buc, I think you are correct that it would open it up to more parents letting their kids get involved in the sport. I think that would be especially true in the Kansas City area and that it turn would encourage more local tournaments with more local competitors. I believe the growth in local tournaments in KC would then encourage even more growth in numbers in Johnson and Wyandotte County. It is probably a negative for this area but people in this area are used to just having athletic events in the metropolitan area when they first get their kids involved in a sport.

Loved the format. Folks with multiple kids--playing multiple sports--will obviously be drawn to this format. Little concerned about the comments above ref. trying to turn these tourneys into $$$ making events.

Believe me turning these tournaments into money making events is the last thing that I would want. I simply offered that up as an explanation as to why some clubs continue to run the traditional format. The reason I say this is some clubs aren't as fortunate as others to have a huge number of kids, and they need money to buy new singlets, some clubs pay rent to use the high school practice room, get new stuff for the kids. A lof of the clubs money comes from running their own tournament. Fortunatly the club from where I came from (Abilene) didn't have these issues. But they still run a traditional tournament because they are able to move 400 kids through an entire tournament and be done by 3 p.m.

Hmm done at 11:30 or 3:00. I will take 11:30. Nigel save this till you have kids of your own and then read it again.

What difference does it make if I have kids, I'm there longer than any one not working the tournament anyway. I can't leave until the last match is done. By the way my father refereed three sports for 30 years he didn't seem to have any problem spending enough time with me, and taking care of the rest of the house too.

Being a ref has nothing to do with it. The refs and the tournament workers are going to be there all day no matter what. Keeping families for an extra 3 or 4 hours when it is not necessary just so your club can make an extra couple hundred dollars is ridiculous. Like I said when you have kids you will know the difference. Try keeping a 6 year old in the stands for 2 or 3 hours between matches.

The difference Nigel is that when you have kids, you can't just go home and relax after a tournament. You have to provide your kids with food. You have to provide them with shelter. You have homework assignments that need to be done. You have a house that is constantly messed up and it is YOUR responsibility to get it cleaned. You have work obligations that need to be taken care of. If your child is screaming because they are bored or tired or cranky, you have to deal with it.
What people are saying is that in this day and age, time spent as a family is important. And it is important that the time is spent wisely. Spending that time sitting in a gym when they could be doing other things is not time spent wisely.
It makes me very upset that you can't seem to understand that. My Time Would Be Better Spent With My Kids Fulfilling My Family Obligations instead of sitting on my butt in a crowded gym full of screaming kids and parents every Saturday for 4 months. If you still don't get it, maybe you could stop by at my house and help me with laundry, dishes, cleaning and other things that comes from having kids and being gone every evening.

If I was going to pick any club to find the flaws in the Nebraska system it would be Derby! My guess is those time schedules won't work if you start the first one two or more hours late.

Well my question to you then would be, do you not consider being at the tournament with your kids as "time better spent" Im sure in the 6 hours you are at a tournament you can find something to do with your kids. What exactly is it that you can't do at a tournament between matches that you can at home, besides homework which no kids would want to do in between matches. Can you not feed them while they are at the tournament with sandwiches that you make at home. I mean if your sole purpose is to be at home, then why not just stay at home?

My sister has three kids age 3-6 I've babysat and been around them for days at a time so I have a good idea of how stressful it can be, but honestly you can't tell me that a measley 3 hours is really going to make all the difference in the world. You also can't tell me that every parent goes home on a saturday and helps their kid do homework, or that every parent goes home and cleans the house. I mean you are being a little unrealistic. Let me put it this way, other parents including my generations parents, dealt with the system the way it is.

Bottom line here I don't mind seeing change in the wrestling world, and I'm willing to accept that parents aren't as willing anymore to spend a couple extra hours, but consider this, when your kids does make it up to Jr. High School and High School and there is no possibility of split tournaments and you do have to spend all day at a tournament, what will you do then?

Maybe he was at the Derby tournament earlier this year when they were having a few problems and he is still disgruntled.

Nigel. My son is in 8th grade. My daughter is in 6th grade. My other sons are 6 and 4. My son does wrestle in junior high. I go to support my kids since that is what a parent does. I do enjoy watching my sons wrestle. But like everyother parents, the every weekend tournaments that last all day take their toll.

What would I do if I wasn't at the tournament: play baseball/catch/tag/football, go on bike trips, see grandparents, paint and draw, watch my daughter play basketball, play games, play with my kids with their own toys, clean house (yes with my kids), talk to them, watch a comedy with them, work on the house (my son has learned a lot from this), read a book, ect.

Life is not just wrestling.

What do I do at tournaments, watch matches to make sure I don't miss the match, check brackets, eat junk food that is overpriced, chase after the little ones, explain again to my daughter why she has to be there, and chase after my kids once again. And yes, three hours does make a difference. That is more than I can get on the weeknights.

I understand that no arguing will convince you. You will always stand by your reasons without truly knowing what a parent is. (watching your nieces and nephew is not the same). All I can say is just be careful of what you say......it can someday come back and bite you.

Mr. Lemon I admire you for what you do with your kids, but you really do have to entertain the possibility that not all parents do the same things you do. By the way I know Life is not wrestling, but on saturdays that time from 5 a.m to 4 p.m really should be.

Perhaps you are right, maybe we should ask him?