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Our Society #12275 05/18/05 01:27 AM
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dgoodrum Offline OP
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An article in the Wichita Eagle about not closing an ice sports arena in Wichita had a quote it in that caught my attention about sports these days.

The quote "The plan to keep the rink open during the week was met with relief by Jean Mendez, who said it wouldn't interfere with hockey practice for her 4-year-old son, Sebastian.

"We've always wanted him to play hockey," she said. "If the rink closes, there goes our hockey scholarship."

Do you think this kid will still be playing hockey when he is 18, let alone get a college hockey scholarship. I have not seen many signings in the paper for hockey players out of Kansas.

This is the same debate we have hashed over and over about 6 year old state. How many of these kids will be wrestling in high school 15-20% maybe. Many parents are living a dream through the kids at to young of an age.

Re: Our Society #12276 05/18/05 11:05 AM
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Gibby Offline
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I've had the same conversation with a variety of parents throughout my coaching career. So much time and effort are spent in the practice room for various sports - a disproportionate amount vs. educational achievement - that I question the motives of the parents.

The push for athletic excellence should never exceed the drive for academic excellence. Tanner Gardner is at Stanford not only because of his performance on the mat, but also because he was a stellar student. Brady Lamar is a math wiz. I'm sure that didn't hurt in Nebraska offering him a scholarship. I have a young lady in class right now that is being sought after by USC because she scored a 26 on her ACT as a sophomore.

I wonder how many that kick and scream about the 6 and unders joining the state tourney and use the losing opportunity/possible college monies later in life are not college educated. This is not a slap in the face, but more in lines of saying because they have not undergone the college experience are not familiar with the financial assistance available. The money for athletic scholarship is miniscule to academic.

At the same time, me on a fence post here, the dynamics of the workforce have changed greatly. If you equate college with more money in salary, I'd beg to differ. The technical trades are booming salarywise because of the loss in manpower. No one wants to be a disel mechanic, plumber, or electrician because it's not "glamorous." My father in law is a pipefitter and makes about 75 grand. A former student of mine works for a disel manufacturer and started out at 40. Not old enough to buy beer, but making more than I do. Electricians make a pretty penny too.

One of the "golden nuggets" I give my students is a talk about what they want to be and why. Most want to go into fields that they think make lots of money. Business administration degrees are a dime a dozen (no disrespect to those holding those degrees) because it's one of the most sought after degrees, thus saturating the market. But what about the areas that are manpower short? They are making good money because no one wants to do it - they get dirty.

Re: Our Society #12277 05/18/05 12:37 PM
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RichardDSalyer Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dgoodrum:
An article in the Wichita Eagle about not closing an ice sports arena in Wichita had a quote it in that caught my attention about sports these days.

The quote "The plan to keep the rink open during the week was met with relief by Jean Mendez, who said it wouldn't interfere with hockey practice for her 4-year-old son, Sebastian.

"We've always wanted him to play hockey," she said. "If the rink closes, there goes our hockey scholarship."

Do you think this kid will still be playing hockey when he is 18, let alone get a college hockey scholarship. I have not seen many signings in the paper for hockey players out of Kansas.

This is the same debate we have hashed over and over about 6 year old state. How many of these kids will be wrestling in high school 15-20% maybe. Many parents are living a dream through the kids at to young of an age.
Very good point Mr. Goodrum!

The link to the article is:
Plan would close rink on weekends

Another recent article, accessed through TheWrestlingMall.com and authored by Grappler's Gym states:

SPORT - Age to begin practicing sport - Age to start specializing - General age of peak performance

BASEBALL 10-12 15-16 22-28
BASKETBALL 10-12 14-16 22-28
BOXING 13-15 16-17 23-26
FOOTBALL 12-14 16-18 23-27
JUDO 8-10 15-16 22-26
PADDLING 12-14 15-17 22-26
RUGBY 13-14 16-17 22-26
SOCCER 10-12 14-16 22-26
SWIMMING-MEN 7-8 13-15 20-24
SWIMMING-WMN 7-9 11-13 18-22
TENNIS-MEN 7-8 12-14 22-27
TENNIS-WOMEN 7-8 11-13 18-22
VOLLEYBALL 10-12 15-16 22-26
WATER POLO 10-12 16-17 23-26
WEIGHTLIFING 14-15 17-18 23-27

WRESTLING 11-13 17-19 24-27

Grapplers Gym: How to Develop Your Young Athlete into a Champion Wrestler


Richard D. Salyer
Re: Our Society #12278 05/18/05 01:23 PM
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wrestlingparents Offline
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As much of a chance our son has to receive a scholarship in football or wrestling, we have stressed to him about his education.
This year was his first year in Junior High and and the end of the 1st 9 weeks, he brought home 2 "D's". We told him this was not acceptable and if he did not have them up by mid-term grades, he would not go to the Cliff Keen Kickoff in Tulsa. He comment was that through the school he is still eligible. They have to have an "F" to not be eligible in school today. When I was in school, we had to maintain a "C" average to be eligible. Maybe schools should go back to that. On the other hand, maybe parents should adopt that rule. Thankfully, he did pull his grades up. Nevertheless, he was told at anytime they went back down, he was out of wrestling. We even told his coaches so they knew in advance. I am proud to say he has made a complete turn around.
We told him that as great of an athlete he is all it takes in one injury to sideline him and all the colleges would turn there back on him. In academics, that shines no matter what injury he had on the mat or field!

Re: Our Society #12279 05/21/05 08:27 AM
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Mike Furches Offline
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Richard thanks for the article from Grapplers Gym. It is an interesting read. One comment though, I see as a part of the article addressed the way that kids are trained. Some countries start their kids earlier but the method of training is the issue. I find myself watching this debate and even drawn into it at times. Most know my position, and I tend to disagree with some that I really like. Part of me though, looks at some of the world class elite wrestlers and see where many of them did start young, for example, on Real Pro Wrestling 3 of the guys came from the same kids club, Illinois Twisters, and started at very young ages. I don't know what they have in their water there but I would like some of it myself. That club still puts out great wrestlers.

The debate will continue, but one thing for certain, the woman in the article is wrong in her approach as is any parent that thinks their 4,5 or 6 year old kid is in this for a scholarship or pro career. Nothing personal but those people are a light bulb short of being bright.

Re: Our Society #12280 05/28/05 09:52 PM
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Aaron Sweazy Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by wrestlingparents:
As much of a chance our son has to receive a scholarship in football or wrestling, we have stressed to him about his education.
This year was his first year in Junior High and and the end of the 1st 9 weeks, he brought home 2 "D's". We told him this was not acceptable and if he did not have them up by mid-term grades, he would not go to the Cliff Keen Kickoff in Tulsa. He comment was that through the school he is still eligible. They have to have an "F" to not be eligible in school today. When I was in school, we had to maintain a "C" average to be eligible. Maybe schools should go back to that. On the other hand, maybe parents should adopt that rule. Thankfully, he did pull his grades up. Nevertheless, he was told at anytime they went back down, he was out of wrestling. We even told his coaches so they knew in advance. I am proud to say he has made a complete turn around.
We told him that as great of an athlete he is all it takes in one injury to sideline him and all the colleges would turn there back on him. In academics, that shines no matter what injury he had on the mat or field!
An F and you can still compete? What school is that? You have to maintain a 2.5 to be eligible in Chapman, and coaches can make it so you have to have a higher GPA if they deem necessary.


Yours in wrestling,

The Swayz
swayz.wrestling@gmail.com recruiting help, promoting the sport& more!
Re: Our Society #12281 05/28/05 09:57 PM
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Mike Furches Offline
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I required my soccer players in North Carolina to maintain a 2.5. Swayz is exactly right, with the right support from Administrators the coach can establish the team policy. For those that hasn't seen the movie Coach Carter it addresses the whole issue of grades and sport and is well worth seeing. The fact that it is true makes it even better.

Re: Our Society #12282 05/29/05 04:18 AM
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AfternoonDelight Offline
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i wouldnt get much playing time then if i was on your soccer team. i barely pulled a c average for semster


You must be a magician cuz ur nuttin but a trick.
Re: Our Society #12283 05/29/05 10:38 AM
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Mike Furches Offline
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A.D. I almost guarantee that we could have gotten your grades up. Several of the things we did was have a mandatory study session 3X each week, by the way the players loved it, we did it as a team and often times found time prior to practice. Players were always helping each other out. There are things we did to build "Team" character and when that is developed, the individual will shine more than ever, but as a team player not an individual player. We had tutors come into the class and work specifically with the players on the team. On the last team I coached, we had 25 on our roster, the most we could have, by the way 26 also met strict lettering requirements. The study session worked with each kid individually, in the last year there we had 7 all conference players, was ranked in the top 10 in state and my proudest accomplishment for the team is that we were named the North Carolina Pepsi Scholar Team. The teams overall GPA was 3.7, good for a bunch of soccer players. We had kids who had been failing previously who started to excel, getting, and maintaining a B average overall.

I a part of my responsibility to do everything possible to help those that wanted to, to continue in soccer while in college. I still believe it is a part of a coaches responsibility, not just to give your athlete the best chance possible to win on the athletic field but also the chance to win in life, which for those that desire it, a chance to go to college. The high school coach carries a tremendous amount of responsibility in this area, as do the athlete and parents. While the coach can't do it for them, they can provide opportunities for success. If provided in an appropriate way, I also believe you could have maintained my 2.5 requirement.

Re: Our Society #12284 06/03/05 12:40 PM
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mom4 Offline
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Have any of you watched the new reality show on BRAVO over parents pushing their kids into sports. It is like their old show titled "Show Mom's and Dad's" except in this, they focus on the parents who push and push their kids in sports to be the best. The one that scared me the most was the football "dad" that had his young boy, age 7, practice every day for at least an hour by running laps, doing drills and taking big hits. They then followed it up with the football games, ect. He even hired a private coach-all of this just because he wants his son to play in the NFL. My question was: what happens to the child if he blows out his knees and can no longer play. Does this mean he doesn't matter anymore to his father? Would his life be over? Scary, scary, scary people.

All four of my kids do sports year around. I do not want my kids to specialize on a sport until they are in high school. They will never wrestle year round just like they would never play baseball year round ect. Does this hurt them? I personally feel that they are all doing okay for themselves as it is. My oldest son competes very well at his age in ALL sports. But even with him, I am not counting on him getting a sports scholarship to go to college. There is just too many talented kids and not enough scholarships to go around. I have no sports ability but still made it through college without any financial needs because of grades/scholarships. I push my kids hard-in academics. I remind them that to go to college, you need scholarships and you get that with grades. My kids can not play sports unless they also maintain an A average on their report card (something that I know they can do). It is a lot of pressure but if they want it that bad, they will do it. Academics pays your way in college and in life. The only way sports will is if you are lucky enough to be in the very rare minority group. It's like betting on the powerball ticket. You know someone will probably win it but what are your chances?

Re: Our Society #12285 06/03/05 03:43 PM
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sportsfan02 Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mom4:
Have any of you watched the new reality show on BRAVO over parents pushing their kids into sports. It is like their old show titled "Show Mom's and Dad's" except in this, they focus on the parents who push and push their kids in sports to be the best. The one that scared me the most was the football "dad" that had his young boy, age 7, practice every day for at least an hour by running laps, doing drills and taking big hits. They then followed it up with the football games, ect. He even hired a private coach-all of this just because he wants his son to play in the NFL. My question was: what happens to the child if he blows out his knees and can no longer play. Does this mean he doesn't matter anymore to his father? Would his life be over? Scary, scary, scary people.

All four of my kids do sports year around. I do not want my kids to specialize on a sport until they are in high school. They will never wrestle year round just like they would never play baseball year round ect. Does this hurt them? I personally feel that they are all doing okay for themselves as it is. My oldest son competes very well at his age in ALL sports. But even with him, I am not counting on him getting a sports scholarship to go to college. There is just too many talented kids and not enough scholarships to go around. I have no sports ability but still made it through college without any financial needs because of grades/scholarships. I push my kids hard-in academics. I remind them that to go to college, you need scholarships and you get that with grades. My kids can not play sports unless they also maintain an A average on their report card (something that I know they can do). It is a lot of pressure but if they want it that bad, they will do it. Academics pays your way in college and in life. The only way sports will is if you are lucky enough to be in the very rare minority group. It's like betting on the powerball ticket. You know someone will probably win it but what are your chances?
http://www.bravotv.com/Sports_Kids_Moms_&_Dads/


Re: Our Society #12286 06/06/05 12:03 AM
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ksdave Offline
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I just saw two of the 7th grade kids from the Augusta Middle School wrestling team get awards today at KU for having among the highest scores in the country on the SATs. They took them as part of the Duke University Talent Search program. Out of all of Kansas, only (400) 7th graders received these awards today. These two guys were also two of only four kids in their grade to have pulled 4.0 grade point averages for 6th and 7th grades.
This just goes to prove that you can wrestle and still be smart!

Re: Our Society #12287 07/05/05 01:42 PM
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TCarmona Offline
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Study session in high School was good. In college it was pointless. We were in the same room as the football players and tennis girls. The football players were always getting all loud talking to eachother and jacking around. Could have spent better time some place else.

I think it you start kids early that isn't bad, but it you start yelling at them or pushing them that is when they break. The kids often want to lean on their parents to keep going, but some parents think they need to be pushed.

Re: Our Society #12288 07/23/05 12:15 AM
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stat girl Offline
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You need good grades to go anywhere, so teach your kids early to study and keep their study habits strong. If you are a good athlete but bad grades you wont go to the Division I school you want and thats why you see for example the Butler fball team so good, because Butler picks up all the guys who dont have applicable grades for the DI colleges.

So if your a good athlete and good in the classroom you dont have to worry about anything, and personally parents just need to stay out of it and stop trying to live their lives through their children thats why so many younger kids get burnt out.


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