Chief,
Go ahead and put Newton ahead of GC! I was not aware they are missing all that firepower! The rest of us are always bringing a healthy lineup week in and week out! Shame on you Chief for not taking that into consideration!

On a more serious note I bet if you ask Coach Wilson what he thinks he would tell the same thing most coaches would, rankings don't mean squat! We all want to be number 1 when it really counts, after state and in our own classification!!

I do appreciate all the hard work Chief does because he cares and is passionate about Kansas wrestling! With out his rankings the talk forum would be BORING! It is a great conversation piece and I love reading all the different opinions! Good luck to all the rest of the season!!

My apologies, I should have made my Newton comment on the 5A rankings page. We will never know how the All Class would pan out, but individual classes are a different story. All Class is fun to talk about and I appreciate what Chief does, but 5A is what I am interested in.

Yes Beeson, of course. But with 5A ruling the All-Class right now, it must be very interesting as well.
It certainly is for me.

Tyson, I will stay out of this, but I want you to know that Doug747 has the license on mis-spelling Jared's name, I hope you took that up with him first. Thanks John

Yes doug747, you did and I haven't forgotten, and yes, I get it.
I am always willing and happy to oblige you though and reciprocate.

let's get back to the Bryant, Jared ranking. I have watched this all year and I am now letting everyone know that it is time for a reciprocation of the two wrestlers. Bryant is a reigning state champ. Bryant has wrestled the toughest tournaments, well beyond what pleasant Ridge has wrestled for competition this year. If anything Jared would have to be the one to prove above and beyond, that from the competition that he has wrestled, that he is the the no. 1 all class wrestler.
let's just say that both of them continue to win all their matches and both become 2013 state champs, but Jared wins the all class is that fair?
Now I know that Chief looks deep into all these scenarios,and I know that he goes off of competition, so just to prove that look at Reese Cokely's record, and yet he is in the top of the all class due to the competition that he has wrestled, and I understand that.
So, let's give credit where its due and change out #1 and #2.

Reese Cokely is not on top of the all-class rankings .

Tyson,

This is a post that I would rather not make because both Guillen and Johnson are two of my favorite wrestlers. Since you have pushed the point, I am compelled to clear it up.

Jared Johnson is a Fargo All-American. This year he has beaten Gavin Grater, who is also a Fargo All-American and who also beat Bryant at FS state. Jared has beaten him three times, with the last match by a 12-6 margin. The only two times that he has wrestled Bryant, Jared won them both.

Comparing their state brackets last year, Jared lost to 40-0 Ky Biddle in the finals. The six placers in his bracket had a combined 149-34 record. Bryant beat Tyler Kimple in the finals and the combined record in his bracket for the six placers was 123-51.

This season Bryant is on a complete roll. He has beaten Blackford from Iowa, who beat Jared at the Junior Duals. He has also beaten Abkemeier from OK, Langley, Meyers, Felton 2X and Hill 2X. His competition this year has been somewhat tougher over all but slightly weaker at the top end. Langley and Blackford are Fargo AA's.

I have seen both of these guys wrestle dozens of times. If they wrestled this afternoon, I would not at all be surprised if either one beat the other. As it stands, especially with Jared having a 2-0 head-to head advantage, I have ranked him #1. Let me make it very clear that I want BOTH of these guys on my All-Class Dual teams and in that 170 bracket at the Rocky Mountain Nationals on March 16-17.

For you to make comments like "let's give credit where it's due" and then refuse to do so, is a curious position.

Couldn't they be the big and small class wrestlers at the senior classic?

Kevin Seybold

This season Bryant is on a complete roll. He has beaten Blackford from Iowa, who beat Jared at the Junior Duals. He has also beaten Abkemeier from OK, Langley, Meyers, Felton 2X and Hill 2X. His competition this year has been somewhat tougher over all but slightly weaker at the top end. Langley and Blackford are Fargo AA's.


This paragraph kinda makes my point. Except not sure what you mean by "slightly weaker on the top end"

Three wins over Fargo AA's vs. two. Hence the sligtly higher. How has your point been made? What is their head-to-head record?

Jared Johnson - 2
Bryant Guillen - 0

Jared Johnson vs Bryant Guillen

Might be a good matchup at the big school vs small school senior night before kids state. Just a thought. Both young men are mighty fine wrestlers.

TEAM RANKINGS:

1. Arkansas City - 5A
2. Garden City - 6A
3. St. Thomas Aquinas - 5A
4. St. James Academy - 5A
5. Junction City - 6A
6. Manhattan - 6A
7. Newton - 5A
8. Valley Center - 5A
9. Derby - 6A
10. Topeka Seaman - 5A


106:
1. Jake Goldenstein – AUG – 10 - 4A - 26-0
2. Logan Terrill - ARK - 10 - 5A - 24-9
3. Michael Prieto - GC - 9 - 6A - 32-2
4. Stephen Tujague – SJA – 9 - 5A - 27-7
5. Josiah Seaton – BS – 11 - 4A - 22-2
6. Ty Nienke - ELS - 11 - 321A - 24-1
7. David Mainus - CLB - 11 - 4A - 27-3
8. Trae Foreman - PRT - 11 - 4A - 27-3
9. Logan McDowell - AB - 10 - 4A - 26-3
10. Ryan Delforge - VC - 9 - 5A

113:
1. Sean DeShazer – WH - 10 - 6A - 26-0
2. Michael Lindlar – WNW – 12 - 6A - 23-4
3. Trey Francka – CCO – 12 - 321A - 24-0
4. Jase Stone - MH - 12 - 6A - 28-4
5. Cesar Regalado - PRT - 11 - 4A - 21-3
6. Josh Goepfert - MRV - 12 - 321A - 24-0
7. Brady Lowell - REP - 12 - 321A - 24-2
8. Zane Baugh - 10 - AB - 4A - 24-6
9. Justus Seaton - BS - 12 - 4A - 21-4
10. PJ Cheney - TUR - 11 - 5A - 18-4


120:
1. Zac Gentzler – AC - 12 - 5A - 28-0
2. Reese Cokeley - SJA - 11 - 5A - 29-14
3. Tyler Mies – AN – 11 - 4A - 24-3
4. Dakota Leach – GD – 12 - 5A - 21-3
5. Jake Elbrader - STA - 11 - 5A - 19-6
6. Marcus Phillips - WW - 11 - 5A - 19-0
7. Tyler Sharp - FS - 12 - 4A - 26-3
8. Kian Clemens - MH - 11 - 6A - 26-8
9. Clay Weil - DC - 9 - 6A - 31-7
10. Junior Morgan - 12 - AB - 4A - 25-2

126:
1. Dustin Reed – CLB - 12 - 4A - 32-0
2. Brandon Ball - HOI - 11 - 321A - 29-0
3. Chris Burley – GB – 12 - 5A - 26-1
4. Bryce Morgan - ELD - 12 - 4A - 19-1
5. Blake Stovall - ON - 9 - 6A - 22-7
6. Zak Hensley - SJA - 10 - 5A - 21-7
7. Alex Kough - SC - 12 - 321A - 18-3
8. Adam Cole - CH - 10 - 4A - 23-3
9. Kyle Miller - BUH - 12 - 4A - 21-5
10. Willy Dieckmann - 10 - ACC - 321A - 27-5

132:
1. Tyler Dickman - STA - 11 - 5A - 17-0
2. Kyle Wilson – WAM – 12 - 4A - 21-1
3. Lucas Maki - AND - 12 - 5A - 14-0
4. Kaleb Konitzer - PV - 11 - 4A - 22-1
5. Sawyer Like - BVSW - 11 - 5A - 31-3
6. Tevin Briscoe - GC - 10 - 6A - 32-4
7. John Risewick - NOR - 12 - 321A - 28-3
8. Dayton Dreher - OBR - 11 - 321A - 29-3
9. Chase Cole - CH - 10 - 4A - 27-3
10t. Greg Burley - GB - 11 - 5A - 23-4
10t. Seth Strauss - AB - 10 - 4A - 29-4

138:
1. Bryce Shoemaker - BAL - 12 - 4A - 26-2
2. Brogan Humphrey - FRE - 11 - 321A - 25-0
3. Isaac Dulgarian - STA - 10 - 5A - 35-2
4. Dane Edwards - DC - 12 - 6A - 26-2
5. AJ Hurtado – GC – 12 - 6A - 25-7
6. Kasey Biddle - CB - 12 - 321A - 21-1
7. Victor Hughes - FS - 12 - 4A - 29-5
8. Kade Sander - GB - 11 - 5A - 22-2
9. Greg Tooley - STM - 10 - 321A - 27-0
10. Drake Hake - CON - 10 - 4A

145:
1. Tagen Lambotte - ROS - 11 - 321A - 22-1
2. Andrew Millsap - JC - 11 - 6A - 30-2
3. Cody Eastman - ARK - 12 - 5A - 29-3
4. Austin Hughey – ELD – 12 - 4A - 18-1
5. Reis Humphrey - SMS - 12 - 5A - 26-2
6. Chance Demel - HOI - 12 - 321A - 28-0
7. Patrick Weaver - HUG - 12 - 4A - 20-3
8. Davis Matthews - MH - 12 - 6A - 26-5
9. Jacob Durossette - FS - 11 - 4A - 16-2
10. Trevor Kennedy - GC - 12 - 6A - 26-11

152:
1. Jonathan Blackwell – BS - 12 - 4A - 22-1
2. Alex Thibault - HAL - 12 - 321A - 24-0
3. Ben Becker - DB - 12 - 6A - 27-1
4. Jake Gehring - BUH - 12 - 4A - 28-0
5. Wyatt Villers - ARK - 12 - 28-3
6. Taylor Watkins - COL - 10 - 4A - 23-5
7. Gage Younger - ELL - 12 - 321A - 24-1
8. Tanner Ogden - RV - 12 - 4A - 31-3
9. Jack Mitchell - SME - 12 - 6A - 17-2
10. John Peden - GDL - 11 - 4A

160:
1. Dustin Williams – GE – 11 - 6A - 33-0
2. Calvin Ochs – HOX – 12 - 321A - 30-0
3. Aaron Puckett – BS – 12 - 4A - 26-0
4. Noel Torres – EMP – 12 - 5A - 24-3
5. Kyle Armstrong – AN – 12 - 4A - 26-3
6. Johnny Perz - STA - 12 - 5A - 33-3
7. Michael Helms - ARK - 12 - 5A - 17-8
8. Warren Kropp - SC - 11 - 321A - 19-4
9. Scott Whitson - BUH - 11 - 4A - 23-5
10. Kalin Collins - WS - 11 - 6A - 23-2

170:
1. Jared Johnson – PR - 12 - 321A - 25-0
2. Bryant Guillen – SEA – 12 - 5A - 32-0
3. Nick Wuthnow - SAC - 11 - 321A - 25-0
4. Trevor Whittaker - SV - 12 - 4A - 17-1
5. Trent Salsbury – SJA – 11 - 5A - 33-9
6. Jared Langley - NEW - 10 - 5A - 27-5
7. Darick Jones - CLW - 11 - 4A - 28-2
8. Kolby Fennewald - MUL - 12 - MUL - 4A - 27-1
9. Kyler Meyers - HAY - 12 - 5A - 31-6
10. Jason Berkgren - OAK - 12 - 321A - 31-2

182:
1. Levi Eck - AN - 12 - 4A - 27-2
2. Nick Meck - SH - 12 - 5A - 27-1
3. Dalton Rodd - AC - 12 - 5A - 13-1
4. Kyler Atwood - SC - 12 - 321A - 24-1
5. Gavin Grater - RC - 11 - 321A - 21-4
6. Spencer Wilson - SEA - 12 - 5A - 11-4
7. Chad Blair - VC - 12 - 5A - 26-1
8. Jake Bradley - PV - 12 - 4A - 29-4
9. Andrew Denning - LAW - 12 - 6A - 18-2
10. Emilio Fowler - GE - 10 - 6A

195:
1. Preston Weigel - HAY - 11 - 5A - 34-0
2. Dillon Archer - NEW - 12 - 5A - 27-1
3. Ben Taliaferro - SH - 12 - 5A - 27-1
4. Seth Pesek - GE - 10 - 6A - 21-5
5. Harrison Gilliland - PL - 12 - 321A - 18-0
6. Brandon Salmans - HOX - 12 - 321A - 24-3
7. Tyler Gastineau - GDL - 11 - 4A - 15-5
8. Skyler Hittle - CON - 11 - 4A - 19-2
9. Deonta Thomas - WE - 12 - 6A
10. James Denton - JC - 12 - 6A - 25-8

220:
1. Justin Scott - JW - 11 - 4A - 26-0
2. Ben Ewing - STA - 10 - 5A - 29-1
3. Luke Weldon - VC - 12 - 5A - 28-0
4. Armando Contreras - 12 - SMN - 6A - 14-2
5. Tyson Toelkes - SH - 11 - 5A - 21-2
6. Dylan Cox - ARK - 12 - 5A - 28-7
7. Caleb Franklin - WN - 11 - 6A - 18-0
8. Jesse Colver - LV - 12 - 5A - 21-4
9. Raymond Gallegos - NEW - 11 - 5A - 26-6
10. Ryker Greenbaum - DOU - 12 - 321A - 21-1

285:
1. Nathan Butler - LV - 12 - 5A - 31-0
2. Will Geary - TOP - 12 - 6A - 22-1
3. Josh Horn - WIN - 12 - 4A - 21-1
4. Clay Wilcox - CHP - 12 - 321A - 28-2
5. Zac Sander - VC - 12 - 5A - 29-3
6. Dylan Hall - SEA - 12 - 5A - 22-6
7. Shannon Meck - SH - 12 - 5A - 25-2
8. Aaron Rafalko - JC - 12 - 6A - 21-6
9. Zell Beiberle - CLB - 12 - 4A
10. Joe Pomatto - PAO - 12 - 4A

All I can say is it is obvious that Jared has got Graters number. I watched that last match, and Jared did dominate, Grater was frustated and basically gave up, so the score looked pretty bad.
My point, for this season, is that Bryant has wrestled better overall competition. i dont think beating the same guy three times is necessarily better than beating two differnt AA's.

When you bring up Greco and Freestyle, that is hardly relevent imo, because, for example, my son has never even wrestled the other two styles, so i am sure many kids that he could beat in folkstyle would beat him at Greco and freestlye, whole differnt ballgame.

So, my point is, based on the overall competition that these two have faced this season, not necessarily AA's because i just said that i didnt think it was relevent, and lets add all the ranked kids from all states that these two have faced and beat because they are both undefeated. Bryant is the returning state champ and has wrestled the big tourneys, i feel that he should probably be in the #1 spot. JMO

See you guys at Silver Lake. That might also be a good 170 final!

Every year you see the same argument that Freestyle and Greco should have no effect on Folkstyle rankings. And its always the people who have never tried it or their kids have never tried it. FACT: kids that wrestle Freestyle and Greco tend to do better and go farther in the sport than the kids that do not.

Look at the All-Class rankings. I know for a fact that 11 out of 14 of the current #1 ranked wrestlers have some kind of Freestyle/Greco background.
Look at the high school rankings on Intermat. 10 out of 14 guys #1 ranked guys are either fargo national champs, double fargo champs, cadet world team member, cadet world gold medalist, or junior world team members.
Look at the College rankings. 10 out of 10 guys ranked #1 have a freestyle/greco background. Logan Steiber has a Junior World silver medal and Dom Bradley has a gold. Kyle Dake may be the guy to knock off Burroughs. Do you see a pattern here?

I understand that a lot of kids also play another sport in the spring and summer. However, if you are serious about wrestling and think that it might be something you want to do in college then you need to hop on the freestyle/greco train. The two styles each offer so much that can transition into folkstyle. Freestyle teaches kids all about being in good position the entire time. Hardly ever do you see scrambles like you do in folkstyle because its much easier to give up points. Greco is NOT all about the fancy throws. Most of the elite greco wrestlers win off of head position, hip position, and hand fighting.

The GOOD wrestlers can wrestle just folkstyle, but the GREAT wrestlers can wrestle all 3.

rccokeley,
I agree with everything you are saying here. We need to have more Kansas kids hit the freestyle/Greco mat. Colleges are looking for the FR/GR kids, as this is what they wrestle at the world level.

I do have to question your comment about Dake possibly taking down Burroughs. Dake is a beast, but I wonder sometimes if Burroughs is even human. Dake and Burroughs will for sure make each other better at the world level.

FACT: kids that wrestle Freestyle and Greco tend to do better and go farther in the sport than the kids that do not.


What the fact really is, is that kids that have much success in folkstyle are fueled by their success, which then makes them more apt to wrestle year round. Greco/Freestyle takes wrestling out into the summer months, so if you desire to wrestle then you will be most likely wrestling FR/GR. How about this fact?
FACT: Kids that wrestle year round TEND to do better and go farther in the sport than the kids that do not.

Amen

That is not always true. I can come up with plenty of examples where kids who had no success in folkstyle still went out and wrestled freestyle and greco. My brothers and I were that way. My high school teammate Zach Pollom started wrestling his freshmen year, had no success at all that year, and every summer wrestled freestyle/greco. He became a state runner up his senior year, and he will tell you that if he didn't put in the work that he did in the summer that he would have never gotten as good as he is.



This last part here is pretty much restating what I already said.