Isaac wrote:

Your point on the injuries due to akwardness of different skill levels is very true

fan of the sport wrote:

Isaac,

I think thats a little arrogant to say the reason the kid got hurt because of difference of skill levels.



Fan of the sport;
Where did you quote Isaac as actually saying that?? He didn't say that, you manipulated his general observation & then YOU decided that he directed it to this specific incident. (I have NO IDEA as to why an adult would manipulate a kid's words for their own agenda!). Plus, Isaac is just a kid, a great kid with great wrestling skills. Why would you change a kid's words and then attack him on that false basis?? or any basis???

Kevin Perz

Your not giving you High School Kids enough credit. This is obviously a PARENT, I would bet money on it.

@ fan of the sport

If you're going to adress/confront a 16 year old young man on this forum, please have the decency to sign your name. After all, young Isaac follows the rules of the forum & places his name on his posts.


@ Isaac

It has been a pleasure watching you grow as a young man & a wrestler. Keep your head up and keep up all the good work.

Pete Eck

You're on. 20 bucks says its a kid Beeson.

I got 40 on it being a kid.

rccokeley; thanx for trying to put a muzzle on your thunderrolz.

thunderrolz; I went to public high schools and LOVED them. I ended up with two Lamborghini’s as a result of my spectacular public high school education. My kids went to private high schools. Your arrogant and condescending attack of public schools is despicable. And as I always felt in high school, even “IF” your mommy & daddy make more money than other kids' parents then that does not make YOU any better than the next kid. Plus, you need to stop sleeping during your English classes. Your baseless, conceited posts are embarrassing to any kid that goes to a private school.
Please stop posting.

Kevin Perz

Not understanding how injuries can happen when kids of much less mat time do things totally unexpected is just being ignorant (not a bad thing) and not having spent enough time around the or on the Matt. I totally understand the thought of using takedowns to set up falls and to work some weight down in some instances. But in some instances (such as many times I saw Sharky do) when you are taking a kid to his back and you pull him off of his back that is unsportsmanlike and should be called so. Once in a pinning situation you are required to work for the fall. That is the entire driving force of the sport. If you want to work on takedowns and not get the fall, do not use a move that you can end up in a pinning situation. Call it what you want about going after a record, it is bs and not a good thing for our sport, when you are not being classy, and making someone look bad puts us in the same class as the trash talking basketball players. Taking a kid down at will that is not in the same class of level is not doing anything positive. Yes, Isaac is just a kid, and that is why the blame should have been spent looking at the coach. STA coach wants to put blame on the official when he knows deep down he is to blame. He tells his wrestler to get a few take downs and then end the match. He tells him to be careful that weird things can happen. He tells him to keep the match out of the officials hands. But we all know that the STA head coach is not why these kids are the quality of wrestlers they are, so we should we not be surprised that he doesn't have the sense to remember these things. But we also know why he would make the statements he made in the paper, he doesnt have the manhood to admit where he was wrong. Is very simple, train right, coach right, act right, respect your opponents while winning or loosing, and good things will happen. We cant control others actions, but we can control our own. But as all my posts mention that it is the adults being coaches, parents, administrators, officials, and fans that carry the burden of helping the kids... Show the class and it will rub off. Show the lack there of and it will rub off even faster..

I guess that the drive to be the best at something in our sport is wrong. Casing records is BS and should not be allowed. I guess we need to just stop keeping records all together if it is classless. I guess acording to you Isacc should lose all his matches that way because he is a better wrestler and chooses to show it. I guess Adrien Peterson should have blown out his knee again for tring to rush for the most yards in history. Maybe, Cal Ripkin Jr. should have gotten hurt because he showed up everyday and went to work for something like 15 yrs strait. You can call it showbaoting all you want, it is scoring points, dont you need to score points to win, and if you are giving up a point everytime you cut him, then you need to score more points. It's a style, one not everyone agrees with, just like picking top because you are better in that position, so maybe we should outlaw Garden City's tilts, that way the rest of 6A could have had a shot. Once again, proof that our society continues to get softer and softer. Lets just start to flip a coin that way everything is fair.

I like to think both wrestlers are getting some mat time. One's practicing takedowns and one's practicing countering takedown moves

And what did I not research?[/quote]

Well for starters, the injured kid did place. Since you're just a fan of the sport I'm going to assume you either never wrestled or weren't very good. It's not easy for a wrestler of Isaac caliber to just flip a switch a take it easy on kids. When you're that good you just go.
Lastly, don't try to make a kid feel bad by basically saying "because you did that, this, this, this, and this probably happened and its all your fault." Isaac was wrestling not trying to ruin the kids life. [/quote]



Cokely, Perz and other people critcizing my respose.

Here's some research for you on my credentials. I placed 2nd and 3rd in 6A kansas back in the 80s. I wrestled four years in college and won 97 matches. I also am an assistant wrestling coach currently on my sons team. I also refereed over 10 years in KS, MO, and IN. I also had a son wrestle in Ohio. I have seen a lot of wrestling and been involved in it on all sides.

My original point is that Isaac agreed to a comment from that kids gets injured due to awkwardness from different skill levels and was referring to Entophobics point that inferred this kid got hurt because his skill level was lower awkward. Perz, please resarch Enotphobic's and Isaac's reponse that is history on this post and did not misquote anybody.

Before people miquoting me heres my points:

1. Isaac is a great wrestler and looks like a great kid and and has a great wrestling future.
2. It was the right call, and yes he was over aggressive on the slam. But I made a point to say it wasn't unsportsmanlike but was unecessary roughness.
3. I'm sure the Salina South wrestler is also a great kid and worked his butt off also to get where he's at.
4. My opinion, he did not get hurt due to the awkwardness of his skill level.
5. I think its crap to say in this situation that he got hurt because he was awkward due to his lower skill level. I've seen enough wrestling to say that is not the case in this incident. You don't know wrestling if you think it is IMO (Cokely). My comments are not also prejudically affected because I don't know the kid and my son hasnt wrestled with him causing me to be offended and to respond with a personal attack at the original poster.
6. Also, Isaac D agreeds with the comment that kids get hurt because of awkwardness of lower skill levels, when you're the wrestler that hurt the kid is plain arrogant in my book. Thats why Im calling him out. Note the context of Entophobics was spefically directed at this situation.
7. Even though when I beat my opponents, I would never be cocky enough to go online publicly and descibe them as "being less skilled" or having "less ability"
8. Cokely, You're right he placed 6th. I thought he lost in first round, maybe I should researched that point further, but really does not change my original point.
9. To Pete Eck? My name is Steve Mathis and live out of state. Sorry for not following the forum rules.

Steve Mathis
West Lafayette, In

Here's my take.

* Was there, saw the match. It was an called correctly.
* Issac has done this the entire year. If the takedown record is that important to him, so be it....chasing records comes with risk.
* Taking people down that many times and letting them up is perceived by the majority of people watching as being "bad sportsmanship".
* Doing it for "Mat Time" is a crock.
* TKing is correct....people should be pointing the finger at his coach or coaches. Why put your kid in that position. Pin him and get onto the next match.
* All that said, The way Issac reacted to the call and how he carried himself the rest of the evening and tournament has got to be appauled. Very professional.

I did not see either post referencing that Isaac's opponent was of lesser skill level. It was a general reference that awkward moves can injury either wrestler.

If you are an "adult" hiding behind an annonymous name and calling out teenagers, you need to get a life.

Tough call. The kid was in a defenseless position due to his arm being pinned to his side. Offensive wrestler has an obligation to return the wrestler to the mat with control. It didn't look violent or out of control, but the first thing to hit the mat was the kid's neck and that is a tough call for this style of wrestling. Just an unfortunate set of circumstances. Officiating wrestling has a lot of subjectivity to it so it and it is a tough job, but without officials, we don't have a sport. Time to move on. Dulgarian has a bright future ahead in wrestling and I doubt this temporary setback derails his plans at all.

Mr. Mathis;

For now the THIRD time in your points #4 & #6, you intentionally choose to misquote young Isaac. The post that Isaac agreed with stated:

"Watch a real good kid against a not so talented one....I have seen a lot of injuries to the better kid due to the awkwardness of the lesser skilled guy who may go the wrong way on a move" UNQUOTE!!
It is not a case of "the kid is plain arrogant in my book. Thats why Im calling him out" (WOW MATHIS, IS THERE ANY LIMIT TO YOUR DESIRE TO VERBALLY ATTACK A KID) - BUT YOUR ENTIRE RANT IS BASED UPON YOUR OWN LIE. Please "carefully read & comprehend" BEFORE you attack a kid.

Isaac & Entophobics say (as a general observation) that lots of times THE B-E-T-T-E-R KID GETS INJURED - yet, for the third time now, you choose to continue to manipulate Isaac's words as if: 1) he said the opposite & 2) even if he said the opposite as you keep alleging (he didn't) that you somehow knew he directed anything at this specific unfortunate incident.

Isaac feels very bad that the young man got hurt. Why do you keep attacking this kid? Stop attacking Isaac in general, but especially on the basis of this TOTALLY FALSE pretense that you concocted.

CAREFULLY REREAD AND C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-D THOSE POSTS

Kevin Perz

It is unfortunate that talented athletes should have to walk around with targets on their back. No matter what they do, they are considered arrogant showboats by some observers. I cannot understand the hostility that is aimed towards them, but I have some ideas why that I will keep to myself. There will always be athletes that are more talented than others, but calling them unsportsmanlike like is unfair. Is pinning an opponent unsportsmanlike in 30 seconds compared to in the second period? Is a tech fall showboating?

Houndpower,

Please re-read my post. I said perceived....I didn't say I agree with it or not. Perception...REAL OR NOT REAL you can not avoid.

Pinning quickly is perceived as being quick, getting it over with, making the kill.

When a wrestler "toys" with another wrestler and does not ended it as quickly as possible it it looked down on.

Real or not it's still a perception. And in this case, a really easy way to get rid of the perception is not to do it.

If one does not care about the perception they have, they can continue doing what they are doing.

Not that this directly relates to this subject but it seems to me that there was big discussion last year about taunting. I guess I could see where some people would take this view in light of the number of takedowns in this match. Guess there is a very fine line as to how you could interpret it. Don't fault the wrestler if that is how he is trained. Obviously he is very good at takedowns and can get some good scoring that way. I know when I wrestled 30 years ago the OK teams we wrestled would try to TF you as opposed to pinning, never understood that myself, but that was their style then. They got pretty upset when you pinned them though.

I will say that I don't think that pinning someone in 30 Sec is unsportsmanlike. Wrestling is a timed event with the goal to win the event before time runs out. There is nothing in the rules about it being unsportsmanlike to pin someone quickly. However, there is a rule about taunting.

This is just an armchair observation, you can debate it out how you like. Doesn't change a thing except make you think.

Troy Fowler

Back in the day penalty points could be awarded for repeatedly taking your opponent down. It was considered to be intentionally humiliating your opponent and was considered to be unsportsmanlike. It did not exist for very long.

Anytime I see an offensive wrestler leave his feet with his opponent and "pile drive" the defensive wrestler, (especially if the defensive wrestler does not have full use of both arms), into the mat with the defensive wrestler taking the full force of the move before any part of the offensive wrestler hits the mat, I see "slam."

I am seeing MMA having an unhealthy influence on our sport.

JUST MY OPINION.

Sorry but as as Salina Central Alum, I have to correct you. He is a Salina Central wrestler not a Salina South wrestler. That's it.

I got the wrong Salina school. But the I was right about him being a good kid and hope he recovers soon. Anybody heard how the kid's doing?