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 Dual Coaching question
#225176
02/14/14 03:01 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 367
JamyD
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Can a person be the High School coach and kids club coach at the same time?
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: JamyD]
#225177
02/14/14 03:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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They can not coach any high school kid or 8th grader who will be in their room the next year. They can coach 7th grade and down plus graduated seniors. At least that is my understanding.
Last edited by Beeson; 02/14/14 03:21 AM.
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Beeson]
#225178
02/14/14 03:24 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 367
JamyD
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Crap!!! Thanks Beeson. Got to change my strategy for the high school program...again..
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: JamyD]
#225183
02/14/14 05:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 75
Ex Heights Coach
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You guys have it easy now! I was suspended for a week, missing a dual, for having attended, (sitting in the stands, ) a tournament after the HS season that a couple of my wrestlers were participating in. The tournament was in Douglas in the early 70's. We couldn't coach or as I found out even be in the same gym with any of our wrestlers after the season.
Dee Gard
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Ex Heights Coach]
#225184
02/14/14 11:08 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Kit Harris
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A HS coach can coach a youth club, no rules against it.
KSHSAA prohibits a HS and/or JH coach to coach their team members inside the school year but outside the season of sport. So a HS/JH coach can't coach their HS/JH team members during the Fall or Spring when the team season is not in session.
In the summer, there are no restrictions about who you can coach and/or when.
I believe this is the rule.
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Kit Harris]
#225186
02/14/14 12:30 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 367
JamyD
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Kit Harris, thank you Coach!! I appreciate the information sir.
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: JamyD]
#225187
02/14/14 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,667
Kit Harris
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I would double check all of this with KSHSAA. Whenever in doubt, always make the call to find out, is my recommendation. Let me know if what I said was correct, I am interested to know.
Thanks & good luck!
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Kit Harris]
#225188
02/14/14 01:02 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 367
JamyD
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Yep, got an email in to Mark Lentz already. Will do and again thanks everyone for your help.
Jamy Dunbar
Osage City Wrestling Club
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: JamyD]
#225192
02/14/14 02:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 143
Mahan
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ok I have to chime in every time this topic comes up. this is the biggest travestiy KSHSAA perpetuates on HS coaches. They completely hamstring us in our attempt to develop our athletes especially in comparison to neighboring states. I hate this rule. Honestly I find it stupid for every sport not just the wrestling.
Question: what is the problem with working a couple of kids out that want to get better at wrestling in March April May? what is the purpose of the rule? seriously. someone enlighten me. and also lets share possible ways to get KSHSAA to let us develop or athletes during peak freestyle and greco season?
sorry to rant....this has been my big soapbox issue since I move here from Oklahoma and was appalled at what I could not do with my athletes.
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Mahan]
#225203
02/14/14 05:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 860
PatrickCavanaugh
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That's easy Mahan. KSHSAA does not care about you or your athletes or any type of progress for the State of Kansas. I really have no idea who's best interest they are suppose to represent. I know they are partial to officials.
Patrick Cavanaugh
785-249-3440
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: PatrickCavanaugh]
#225226
02/15/14 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 116
Harry L. LaMar
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Exactly. I hope that poor official has recovered from that horrible life threatening event he had to experience. The goal should be to help young men learn and grow in life. KSHSAA and the ref, Barerra should be ashamed!!!! I know a young man in Silver Lake that is ashamed and humbled by his actions. It is a shame that actions like this are allowed to happen!
It’s a great day to be alive
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Harry L. LaMar]
#225228
02/15/14 01:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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Alright gentlemen, I'll ask it. What happened with an official and a Silver Lake wrestler?
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Beeson]
#225233
02/15/14 10:10 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 367
JamyD
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I must have missed something here. I just wanted to know if I could coach my wrestlers from the program I started when they get to the High School program I am trying to start when they get older while still running the club. Not sure where officiating and Silver Lake comes into play here but as Beeson said, Enlighten us boys, please!!! Hahaha....
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Beeson]
#225235
02/15/14 10:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 89
DannyB
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Memorial Day to Labor Day, no restrictions. Chad you are correct on the 8th grade wrestler with HS/MS coach. That's why MS kids don't enter MS until after Tulsa Nationals or HS until after Cliff Keen. Always loopholes! USD coaches cannot coach any HS wrestler or MS wrestler (if their USD has wrestling)
after HS/MS is done until Memorial Day. It stops a dominate team good or bad???
Make yourself better for the NEXT level
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: DannyB]
#225257
02/16/14 09:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 116
Harry L. LaMar
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Just another rant about how Kshsaa does not understand high level kids and their intensity and desire to win. ie training in the spring or summer. We had a young man bump an official and Barrera, (the official) asked KSHSAA to ban him for life. KSHSAA banned him for the rest of the season. (never is it ok to bump an official, that is not my rant)!!! The opposing coach said the boy was looking into the stands and probably did not even see the official.
The punishment does not fit the crime. I realize this is a stretch to put this on this thread. But I feel better now!!
Back in the day, I went to the executive board at KSHSAA twice to talk about coaching outside of the season. My point was always very simple, "as an educator, KSHSAA is asking me to tell a young man, no I cannot educate you, except for 3 months out of the year". It would be like asking a math teacher in the summer for help with math, and the answer would be, nope cant help you except during the school year. Educators should be able to educate when a student wants to learn! the rules have relaxed some since then, but they still have the same stance during the school year if you are a JH or HS coach. arghhhhhhh late night, cant sleep, ramblings by HL!!!
It’s a great day to be alive
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Harry L. LaMar]
#225266
02/16/14 02:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 393
Ryan Jilka
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I don't know why this/these rules are in place, but I can say that back in the day, I would talk to coaches about the rules and ask about their AD's perception of the restrictions. A surprising number of coaches would not have any problem with the restrictions. They also griped about their regional assignments and usually failed to field a competitive team. In other words, they liked the tiny paycheck and title IMO.
Others would say that ADs didn't go strong for a change because other sports either had more restrictions or thought it might cut back on participation in other sports. I don't buy it, but that was what I heard. I do believe KSHSAA would vote for a change in the rule if a vast majority of ADs came to them with the request/support for such changes. I know KSHSAA gets a lot of grief, but I would encourage you to discuss all of these issues with your AD and ask what they are doing to initiate change. I'm guessing a wrestling based forum gets a lot of attention.
"The days I can keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are good days" ~ Judy Hubbard
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Harry L. LaMar]
#225292
02/17/14 01:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327
Cokeley
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327 |
Just another rant about how Kshsaa does not understand high level kids and their intensity and desire to win. ie training in the spring or summer. We had a young man bump an official and Barrera, (the official) asked KSHSAA to ban him for life. KSHSAA banned him for the rest of the season. (never is it ok to bump an official, that is not my rant)!!! The opposing coach said the boy was looking into the stands and probably did not even see the official.
The punishment does not fit the crime. I realize this is a stretch to put this on this thread. But I feel better now!!
Back in the day, I went to the executive board at KSHSAA twice to talk about coaching outside of the season. My point was always very simple, "as an educator, KSHSAA is asking me to tell a young man, no I cannot educate you, except for 3 months out of the year". It would be like asking a math teacher in the summer for help with math, and the answer would be, nope cant help you except during the school year. Educators should be able to educate when a student wants to learn! the rules have relaxed some since then, but they still have the same stance during the school year if you are a JH or HS coach. arghhhhhhh late night, cant sleep, ramblings by HL!!! It is "Chippy" Biera, Harry.  KSHSAA has shown us some true inconsistency again. Take away 25% of a youth's HS post season opportunity for losing control, a loss that occurred because said official did everything he could to pour gas on the fire instead of finding a way to diffuse the situation and find a way to cool off a young wrestler. It is odd to me that this official was "bumped" two weeks in row resulting in ejections. How many other officials have ejected wrestlers for bumping them this year?? Here is where KSHSAA drops the ball. Harry is right, the crime doesn't fit the punishment. An official was convicted of battering a youth ON THE MAT by a court of law. Yes, an official violently pushed down a 14U wrestler. KSHSAA conducted a special "hearing/vote" and made a decision to NOT punish this official. That's right, not for one weekend let alone a post season. This is an adult with many years of experience, who gets paid to officiate thus making him a professional. He gets ZERO punishment by KSHSAA while a kid who needs some help growing up gets 25% of his post season opportunities taken away. NO CONSISTENCY.
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Ryan Jilka]
#225293
02/17/14 01:30 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327
Cokeley
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,327 |
I don't know why this/these rules are in place, but I can say that back in the day, I would talk to coaches about the rules and ask about their AD's perception of the restrictions. A surprising number of coaches would not have any problem with the restrictions. They also griped about their regional assignments and usually failed to field a competitive team. In other words, they liked the tiny paycheck and title IMO.
Others would say that ADs didn't go strong for a change because other sports either had more restrictions or thought it might cut back on participation in other sports. I don't buy it, but that was what I heard. I do believe KSHSAA would vote for a change in the rule if a vast majority of ADs came to them with the request/support for such changes. I know KSHSAA gets a lot of grief, but I would encourage you to discuss all of these issues with your AD and ask what they are doing to initiate change. I'm guessing a wrestling based forum gets a lot of attention. The NUMBER ONE rule change to improve KS HS wrestling is coach contact from the end of the season until Labor Day. Wrestling NEEDS the March, April, and May months when they don't have to compete with football coaches for time to work with the kids who WANT to get better.
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Cokeley]
#225312
02/17/14 04:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 393
Ryan Jilka
Member
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 393 |
I don't know why this/these rules are in place, but I can say that back in the day, I would talk to coaches about the rules and ask about their AD's perception of the restrictions. A surprising number of coaches would not have any problem with the restrictions. They also griped about their regional assignments and usually failed to field a competitive team. In other words, they liked the tiny paycheck and title IMO.
Others would say that ADs didn't go strong for a change because other sports either had more restrictions or thought it might cut back on participation in other sports. I don't buy it, but that was what I heard. I do believe KSHSAA would vote for a change in the rule if a vast majority of ADs came to them with the request/support for such changes. I know KSHSAA gets a lot of grief, but I would encourage you to discuss all of these issues with your AD and ask what they are doing to initiate change. I'm guessing a wrestling based forum gets a lot of attention. The NUMBER ONE rule change to improve KS HS wrestling is coach contact from the end of the season until Labor Day. Wrestling NEEDS the March, April, and May months when they don't have to compete with football coaches for time to work with the kids who WANT to get better. No argument from me. I've always thought it would be great to have the opportunity...especially for those towns that are not situated close to a bigger city with FS/GR teams like CK or East Kansas. I just think it's important to remember that KSHSAA is a member driven association. I wonder why the member schools don't push for more of these opportunities. This is like griping to your buddies about a legislative proposal but never voicing it to those in power (come on Will, that's two of your favorite subjects...have some fun with it!).
"The days I can keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are good days" ~ Judy Hubbard
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Re: Dual Coaching question
[Re: Cokeley]
#225349
02/17/14 05:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7
C. Frazell
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I was there....It was NOT an accident. There was way more to the situation even after that incident, and I thought the official handled the situation perfectly, and never raised his heart rate. With that said I hate to see the athlete lose the whole season!!
Clete Frazell
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