2+2 is what I say. I saw no stalling in the clip provided. That's what this thread is about. Right?

Most people on here that have commented on this topic ... aren't high school referees, much less ones working high school state tournaments. Quite a bit different when you are the one out on the mat making the call without the benefit of replay.

Just for the record though. My opinion ... the benefit of replay is there was a takedown and no near fall, of course that depends entirely on when your judgement of when the takedown should have been awarded.

Sorry, my bad. I forgot that if you're not a ref your opinion doesn't matter. That's what alot of the problem is huh.

I would say it is divided pretty evenly on if the call is right or wrong. The only difference is, the ones who think the call was right are backing it up with why. Those who think it is a bad call are just writing 2+2, with no criteria. To me the ones with criteria for the call have a more valid point.

Not what I said at all. The point of the comment was that unless you are or have been a referee in this situation at this level with this kind of competition, it's pretty easy to claim something was a bad call.

On the flip side of that if you are or have been an official you gain a pretty healthy understanding of why the call or no call in this case was made and you transition over from labeling things good and bad to more along the lines of "well I can see where he is coming from"

2 for reversing position and 2 for back exposure. Still missed the stalling. Must have not been part of the clip. Or does someone have the criteria for that? It sure is getting a lot of play on this thread.

So again not reading my original post. I explained how on the high flyer to my understanding should have been called as if a peterson were hit. s h ou l d I t y p e sl ow er

You type plenty slow enough. You were one of the few against the call that gave a reason. Although I disagree with you on when the high flyer should be considered control and counting should start. At least you gave a reason.

I agree, Reversal +2.

The official gave a decisive, two count without hesitation or waiving it off…the official gave no rolling hand signal indicating the wrestlers rolled thru which left everyone observing to expect 2 NF points which didn’t come.

If the official truly thought it “wasn’t even close”, then, he would not have consulted his twin for his opinion (how often do we see this and have a call reversed?). Instead, he would of told the coach without consulting.

Control was established as soon as the leg was in and the count should of started at that time.

Smack. And the Waterboy knows all. hahahaha

That is your reasoning? Because his arm waved twice, he should get the two back points? Try watching it without watching the official. I'm not sure you will be able to, but try. Clearly no back points were awarded, if so the other kid would have won.

Ok, just watched the tape again and I changed my mind...it should be reversal + 3, good catch.

That is your reasoning? Because his arm waved twice, he should get the two back points?


Chad that's what that usually means. Wait did they change something? Somebody help me here. Go to your room and think about that comment young man. lol

Ok, I have a question for you that agree with the call. How many of you would have thought it was a travesty if the points would have been awarded?

I have to assume the official is making the correct call after all, he was the closest person to the action and he was obstructing my view...yes, he gave a two count and I accept that.

I can't hold it in anymore. Watch the video and try to ignore the official.... How would you score that? With the call that was made I think even the official would agree that was the wrong mechanics to use, but in my opinion I think the correct call was made. And 2 heads were used to make that decision. At the end of season I have officiated at ALL levels and all you can really say this is a CLOSE judgment call of when control was established and all...You cannot label this call as a "Bad Call", I have seen this official many times and he is one of the better ones you are going to get so trust the judgment call....And its really cliché to say but "DO NOT LEAVE IT UP TO JUDGEMENT CALLS", and there was a ton of other wrestling done in that match. The official did not blow this call...

If you question the points in your head you NEVER award them...just my opinion

There would be no travesty either way....it was a close call. One second either way. End of the match, quick action, either way it ends up being a heart-breaker for one or the other. I think in 100 matches this goes 50-50 and in most cases its not a state tournament match.

We'll never know if the official actually made a two count...for those who aren't officials, it boils down to this...the swing of the arm is not what decides points, that's just a signal for the crowd....I've seem points awarded with no swing, and I've seen guys swing the arm 10 times for a three point NF.

To go all goofy over this call is expecting a level of perfection that you aren't going to find in mere mortals.

I'm reminded of a baseball officiating story in the big leagues. At a close play, the umpire calls "safe" while giving the "out" signal. The runner looks up and says "which is it" and the umpire says "10,000 fans just saw that signal, just you and I hear it the other way, you're out."

Both wrestlers had a great tournament. I have nothing but respect for Nick Haug and the Olathe North program. This situation comes down to a judgement call. I can think of numerous calls this weekend that I wished went Wichita Northwest way, Two takedowns on the edge of the 132 finals that didn't happen and a few stalling calls. In my honest opinion the call at 145 could of went either way. I'm just glad it went Wichita's Northwest way. The ref explain that he didn't get a full 2 count. I will close by saying something I learn in kids wrestling never ever leave it in the hands of the referee. Coach Prichard Wichita Northwest

Are you the short Ashpole or the tall Ashpole? Check your PM's