I am introducing this new topic in hopes of possibly drawing some more input from people across the entire state to the discussion that is going on under the Atchison Tournament topic.

I think some important issues are being brought out in that topic that go beyond just this weekend's tournament at Atchison. I believe a very worthwhile discussion is being conducted on the Atchison tournament. The Atchison officials have apologized, acknowledged the problem, are making assurances to the clubs they are going to correct this year's problem and are already planning ways to do that. Most of the people posting seem to be wanting them to do that because I think they can see how it can be a potentially very good tournament with great wrestling and opportunity to wrestle good wrestlers from different clubs.

What is also coming out from the frustrations that people dealt with in the long day in Atchison on Saturday is that there is a limit to what people find acceptable in the length of our normal tournament day. I think some interesting suggestions have been made.

Personally I like the one proposed by Oltymer and Mike Juby for split session tournaments. I know I like this at Districts. Mike said that the reason that it has been slow to catch on is because although most of participants would have their time cut by about 50% and approximately 80% would benefit that the 20% who would not benefit would be at the tournaments longer because some time is lost between sessions. Mike said included in this 20% who would be there longer are the people who actually run the clubs. I can understand why these people would not want to be there longer. I mean these are the people who put in most of the time. But if Mike's numbers are close to correct to the amount of time that could be saved for that big of a percentage of people, it seems like it is something to consider.

So tournament time: What is acceptable, How long is too long too wait to wrestle your first match, and what do you think are ways to achieve it?

I think the wrestler should not have to wait past match 30. That is still about an hour and a half. I agree with what Olathewrestlingmom said about kids in the 2 or 3 man brackets wrestling early. First of all it is disappointing to the wrestler to get there and see there is only 2 kids to wrestle and then to wait for 5 hours in her case??!!
Wrestling is a sport of waiting, and I think everyone who has been at it for a while knows this, but a couple of hours should be the max to have until they wrestle.
We were at Atchison and it was a long day.

matparent:

I would agree that ideally two hours would be the longest they should wait for their first match. The scratches are often the big reason for longer delays.

How long do you think it should ideally be for the total time spent on the normal (not a major tournament or sub or district) tournament day?

At my daughter's basketball game on Sunday we were in and out of the gym in 90 minutes. I know wrestling is not basketball, but should it be longer than 3 times that amount say 4 to 5 hours? My son has been wrestling for over 5 years and we have come to accept and be happy with a day that starts with a 7:30 weigh-in and ends by 3 or 4 PM, but you have to wonder if the normal non-major weekend tournament could be a shorter day.

Could we achieve a goal like that with split sessions? Maybe the 6, 8 and 10 & unders during a morning session and a 12 & 14 group in the afternoon. Do you think split sessions could work at some tournaments?

I dont know if this would make the tournaments run faster or not. But what if they were run like freestyle tournaments are. Pairings are delt with at the head table and each pair of wrestlers are sent to the next available mat. Just a thought!

Hugewrestlingfan,

I would say no way to that format. I went to a youth tournament using that format and thye did not have enough mat space and we did not finish until 1:00am the next day. It is much easy having the kids going to the same mat every time. Once your numbers get so large, then you need a two day format. We are hosting a tournament this weekend and the key is larger mats, good table workers, fewer matches per mat, three or four good head table managers to trouble shoot and start on time.
You also need to cut your Entry Deadline Off and Be Firm about it. Our bracketing, bout sheets, bout numbers, mat numbers are done for this weekend. You can not bracket the night before, or the morning of the tournament. Cut your weigh times earlier and make necessary changes in the last hour. Wrestling takes time and if parents can not spend a weekend day with their child then they should not have them in an activity. The Athison tournament was well run and good quality wrestling. Not every school district(s) has the the resources to do what we are doing or ability to get ten full mats. It is flat out just a bunch of work and time. And trust me we are not doing this for the convience of the parents this is done for the kids.

After reading comments on the Atchison Tournament, I would ask if
any wrestlers attended the Lee's Summit Tournament that same weekend?
My son's first match was after 2:00 PM. He had a scratch in the first round and the
finals round was match number 140. It was a very LONG day. I understand that
this is how some clubs raise money for their teams however either limit the number
of wrestlers or get a bigger facility. Wrestling is a tough sport but it doesn't have
to be miserable.

Ways to lessen the length of tournaments:
1. eliminate the double elimination format and only allow those wrestlers to wrestle back whose opponents make it to the semi-finals
2. make all wrestle backs 1-1-1 minute periods
3. limit the number of entries
4. use bigger mats so that less time is wasted going out of bounds and starting over
5. have more 2 day tournaments
6. make the sign-up weights the official weight-that is if a wrestler does not make weight he does not wrestle in a different bracket

Iowa Fan:

I like the direction you are going with your six suggestions. I like most of them. However if your first one was implemented, you would not probably have to worry about your third one because I think that would hold back quite a few entries in itself. As a parent, I'm not too likely to drive 60 to 120 minutes to a tournament and pay a $10-$12 entry fee, if my son or daughter has the possibitlity of only wrestling once. So you would automatically hold down entries with no double elimination. You would also cut down matches so much that none of the others would probably be necessary either.

I do like your other suggestions though. The only thing about the last one on not allowing wrestlers who do not make weight to change their weight class is that I could see some tournaments start to allow more wrestlers who are a pound or two over the weight to wrestle anyway. If any tournaments currently allow a pound or two, they might bump that up to three to five pound allowance. Anyway I'm not sure how many tournaments bump a wrestler up a weight class if they don't make weight. Evidently some do.

The two day format could be run like the split format suggestion with 6, 8, and 10 & unders on the first day and 12 & 14 & unders on the second. I believe most coaches would prefer to have the tournament completed in one day even if it is a longer day. It gives them either a free weekend day or allows them to go to a novice tournament on Sunday, so that is why I think the split format on the same day would be preferable.

I do believe that 10 hours is the most a tournament should last...from weigh in to last match. Last weekend we were at the Johnson County Classic with over 700 kids and we were out of there by 2:00. That was waiting for the final match in the round robin bracket and all. I know things happen at tournaments that are beyond your control, but I think the format should be changed to avoid some of those problems from every happening. I have seen some intresting ideas and I like the same brackets all wrestling at the same time.
Maybe it will catch on someday!!