Every tournament seems to have their own set of "rules" for seeding. Why is it so inconsistent? Seeding is about separating the the 4, 6, or 8 best wrestlers in the bracket in a predictive manner based on the data available. The goal is to fairly distribute the competition onto both sides of the bracket. It is not science, it is not brain surgery, nor is there any way to be totally objective.

Seeding "guidelines" should be developed and sprinkled with some common sense decision making. There is no need for a seeding "dictator" but an arbitrator to hear the occasional case a coach might need to make for their wrestler.

Wrestling is all about beating your opponent! Simple, the one who scores the most points is the better wrestler at that time. Wrestlers who win more than they lose should be considered, in general, seedable. Beyond that their record winning percentage means ZIPPO! Strength and quality of opponents means everything!

1) All wrestlers over .500 considered for seeding.
2) ANY head to head win or last head to head win during the current season matters! If you have a loss against a seedable wrestler then you can't be seeded higher! That doesn't mean that a win jumps you up but it most certainly means a loss will pull you down!!
3) All wrestlers have the goal to win state! Being a state champion matters. Are all state champs equal?? HECK NO!! The state and the classification have to be considered.
4) All tournament placements from the current season matter. Rate the tournaments based on strength.
5) Wrestling outside of the HS season matters!! In order...
a. Super 32 below 160 b. Fargo FS c. Flo d. USA FLK Nationals e. VA Beach f. Super 32 160 and above g. Fargo GR

6) The previous year placing at your tournament.(2nd and 3rd are the same unless there was a head to head)
7) All state placings beyond the previous year. (2nd and 3rd are the same unless there was a head to head. Being a finalist means nothing unless you WIN!)
8) All host tournament placings prior to the previous year

There you have it. The preponderance of criteria is to be taken into consideration not just one category. There will ALWAYS be special cases and exceptions. Don't try to make it too black and white! Seeding is more art than science.

Feedback on these guideline??

Well said Will!!!!!! Saw lots of matches at Bob Cat, in the quarters that should have been semis, if not finals matches.

Blind draw and true 2nd! cream rises to the top! No excuses it's in the hands of the wrestling gods period

No it's in the hands of the person or people seeding the tourney! The gods have nothing to do with it. Do your research, before, you call it a blind draw. True 2nd? It will never happen in Kansas. Quality tourneys deserve, quality people putting it together. Sorry, just what I saw across the board. Cream does rise to the top. If done correctly!!!!

I completely agree with Cokeley, but the one thing I want to stress more is the seeding value of national sucess. After head to head and common opponent the next seeding critirea should be Fargo FS AA (or something similar such as Super 32 AA or USA Folkstyle Champion). Yes that trumps a KANSAS STATE CHAMPION (other states could possible jump this such as California or Pennsylvania.) Cadet level sucess can be debated (but should usually trump a Kansas State Champion). Junior level is no doubt! I don't say this out of disrespect of Kansas wrestling. I say this out of experience. The one thing Cokeley is dead right on is the goal of a seeding meeting is to separate the best 2 wrestlers so that they meet in the finals!

Thoughts?

Don't the coaches attend the seeding meetings? The seeding meetings I have been involved with - the coaches are normally involved supplying data and are aware of and involved in the process.

By these lines I reading, so at 145 Karsten won Fargo two years ago. But Trowbridge and frame both folkstyle national Champs last year. Should have been seeded ahead of Karsten? I'm afraid not. And if it had seeded that way Karsten still would have won! You can never please everyone and never remove "good old boy system"
And every year this argument is posted after bobcat bitching about seeding. Don't get me wrong I love stirring up the shit

This site really needs a like button

Man I just looked it up and counted 112 placers 84 of which placed within 3 or less difference of Their original seeding place. That ain't to shabby to me hope the math is close I got a ged

True second is always in favor the wrestler who just won a bronze. You make a huge deal out of the finals and a wrestler loses a heart breaker but has to come back and preserve their second place medal. That is not a true second opportunity. I HATE true second matches, they are not even opportunity.

Number 1 is NEVER the issue with seeding. In fact, if you ever hear of a coach begging for a one seed, their wrestler isn't really the one seed. If you are the best you don't care where they put you in the bracket but all of the other coaches/wrestlers do care.

When you seed it wrong it can be a self fulfilling prophecy. 84 out of 112 is a C. I want seeding to be A or B+ at the lowest. I know that is what the coaches expect.

4 times Jon's taken 2nd and had to wrestle again won 3 lost one to a better wrestler period not cause he was down on himself. Tired demoralized wrestler hates to lose just as much as a fresh one. Besides though I wish Jon had done better this weekend. Bobcat champion means tons less the state championship. These loses motivate

The overall data demonstrates the exact opposite of what Johnny has done. Usually the 3rd place wrestler has a greater amount of recovery time as well. It is not practical.

So you are saying that we should just forget about trying to improve the seeding???

45 minutes is way more than u need to recover usa only gives 15. And we should ever stop improving.... even if we implement all this.. we'll have this same argument next year. The seeding was better than last year by 15%. They done good

Seeding meetings are all about Coaches running from competition and trying to get on the bracket in the best possible place for their athlete. I agree with Jon, Blind Draw and let's wrestle if it is a regular season tournament. If you wait until the end of the finals matches to do the true seconds then that is plenty of time to recover from your loss in the finals. I am tired of going to seeding meetings for hours and hours listening to coaches argue about 7 and 8 place seeds. Plus, there is only 1 seeding meeting that counts in Kansas and that is regionals.

All that being said would somebody please give me the names of the people that seeding hurt. I'm not seeing as much of it as you guys

OMG!!! I love you Greg but you are one of the biggest seeding whiners or all time!! LOL You argue with the best of them! See you at the seeding meeting in Garden City.

No you won't!

Ok. I will see you in Wichita.

Yep! And the only seeding meeting that really counts would have already happened the week before.