I believe that with 4 weeks notice a kid can't get his weight under control enough to make weight without starving his self or runing of extra pounds the night before or the morning of weigh-ins the kid is in the wrong weight class and cutting weight in was that may be harmfull to a young growing body.

I think the big problem is the time that weigh-in ends (7:00 p.m.). All tournaments that we have been to in the past have had weigh-in until 8:00 or 8:30. And what about those kids who live out by Colorado. If I'm not mistaken those kids have no shot at making it to Topeka on time if their parents have to work (we all can't be doctors & lawyers).

I agree with dschwen, it is just the cut-off time is too early for working parents. I can't think of one tournament this year that ended friday night weigh-ins this early.

1 OR 2 HOUR DRIVE ISN'T BAD. BUT TRY DRIVING FROM GOODLAND. THEY REALLY NEED TO STAY TILL 9.00 P.M.

Home weigh-in would be great providing there was a challenge provision to eliminate the inevitable cheating from the unscrupulous among us.

When I posted some of the "general" information about the state tournament, as well as a few changes, I did it as a courtesty so people would know ahead of time. We have found in the past, that SOME club directors do not pass along information to their club members, as we do.

The subject of changing the weigh-in times was discussed at our executive council meeting in September, as well as the State Body meeting in November (minutes were even posted on the web page for all to read). As many who were at the State Body Meeting have said, there were very few negative comments about changing the weigh-in times to Friday night only. We have kept track the last couple years as to the numbers of wrestlers weighing in on Saturday morning. While many of you are still in your beds sleeping, we have been up before 5:00 am getting ready to go to the Expocentre, as well as a FEW volunteers to help us do the weigh-ins. The majority of these kids weighing in on Saturday morning, were the ones running on Friday night. With all the talk of trying to eliminate cutting weight, you can't tell me these kids shouldn't have moved up a weight class or possibly watched it a little closer during the week. It's obvious to me some are cutting weight because of all the moving at our seeding meetings before it begins.

We have ran several National tournaments where we weigh in the same amount of wrestlers in 2 hours. At Southern Plains, it is done even in a shorter amount of time. At Cadet / Junior Nationals, they do it in less time than we are for our State Tournament. We are doing it for three hours (4:00 - 7:00 pm on Friday). You say tournaments have weigh-ins until 9:00 pm. I can guarantee you that don't start at 4:00 pm either.

Several are complaining about having to take time off from work. To put it bluntly, I have used MANY days of vacation for Kids Wrestling, including 1 1/2 days for the State Tournament, as well as others I'm sure do. PLAN AHEAD!!!! My family and sons give a lot up during the week of the Kids State Tournament for ALL OF THESE KIDS, so please give a little of yourselves. At times, I would enjoy being able to relax with my family the week of the State Tournament and even at the State Tournament, as many of you are able to do. Believe you me, I am not complaining about the vacation or the loss of family time during the State Tournament or Kid Wrestlings, I do it and make those sacrifices because I love this sport and ALL the other kids involved, just not my own. I am not a lawyer or doctor as one post said, I just have a very understanding employer who allows me time with my family (actually work for a CPA and this is TAX TIME).

For those of you who are complaining, I hope you will be the first ones contacting your District Director and volunteering to work tables, load, unload, tape & mop mats, as well as all the other work that goes into setting up the tournaments. We have MANY volunteers (but its the same ones year after year) who give of themselves for the Kids in our State. Maybe it's time for some others to step up and offer to volunteer at our State Tournament.

Sorry if changing the times has caused such a inconvenience for some of you. My suggestion is to plan ahead (you have over a month to do so). Make the necessary arrangements to get your child to Topeka either by yourself or with someone else. There have been years when my own children ride down with parents from our club because they know of the obligations Greg & I have with setting up the State Tournament.

It will not change for 2004! This was not a decision made by the State Tournament Committee, BUT by the State Body, representatives (club directors) who where in attendance at the State Body meeting last November.

I would suggest you talk to your club directors and be sure that that they speak up next year at the State Body Meeting when we discuss the 2004 State Tournament and changes for 2005!

Leanna Grater

Dear Leanna:

Well said.

The weigh-in time change should not cause any inconvenience for those who plan ahead.

We all know emergencies do arise, and with proper documentation of the emergency situation, arrangements will be made for weigh-in of the affected participant(s).

If necessary, I will be happy to volunteer to be on call for just such a case.

To those of you who constantly complain - STEP UP and volunteer.

Vince:

Certainly you had every opportunity to know of the change in advance. If there is a problem with communication in your club, address it with your club director.

I was aware there was discussion regarding a change, however I did not care when or where the weigh-in was held. If I wanted to participate, I would be there within the prescribed time frame. The discussion has been ongoing for several years. The number of participants utilizing the early morning weigh-in is documented, and is a fact. Of the thirty (30) participants utilizing this weigh-in, if I remember correctly, over half had attempted weigh-in the night before.

So far, you do not like the length of the tournament, the mat size utilized for certain age groups at the tournament, and now the weigh-in time.

Is there anything at the tournament which you agree with?

So basically a kid from Liberal who doesn't arrive until 8:00 pm is told "Tough luck kid. I know that you may have diven 7 or 8 hours to get here but, your parents and/or club director should have planned ahead." Well at least everyone from District 1 made it on time.

If you folks haven't learned by know this weigh-in issue is set in stone. The elected powers that be have made their desission. If you don't like the desission that they have made than it is your right to run for their office. I am sure some of them would be glad to give it to you. I also am convinced that this organization is not unlike anyother, in that it is very political. And for the most part the executive board (like our state government) is unconcered with the people that live away from the highly populated areas of the state. If the "Westerners" could gain power of the organization maybe you could move the tournament to Hays or the likes and have the weigh-in when it was conveniant for you. But until that happens there are only 2 real suggestions I have for you. 1) Have your wrestler catch a ride with someone you know who can leave earlier to make the weigh-in. 2) District 4 boycott which would reduce their income by 25% and would make the biggest impact.
Because when it realy comes down to it money is the only thing that has a true voice.

Contrary your opinion, the corporate board of directors for USA Wrestling-Kansas, does in fact care about the state of Kansas wrestling. Many of them are from the far corners of District 3 and are not nestled in the metropolis of District 1. Under their leadership, our organization has grown into one of the premiere environments for youth wrestling in the country. Weigh in times for the state tournament was just one of many issues addressed by the board this year. This issue was debated in open forum and handled as I have seen countless other issues over the years. It was not decided in a dark room by “the man” as some would lead you to believe.

If you are unhappy with the decision then this forum is a great place for you to voice your opinion. You might also let your club director know your opinion on this issue. I am not trying to curtail the debate by my post. I personally do not feel strongly about this issue either way. This forum was established and is moderated by the very leadership many of you are criticizing. It offers an excellent venue to share ideas about the sport of wrestling. There is, however, a right and wrong way to debate any issue…no matter how controversial the issue is.

1. Come to the table with facts not personal attacks.
2. Offer an alternative solution.
3. Listen to the other point of view.
4. If others do not share your point of view do not resort to personal attacks; in the end this only hurts the cause you are pushing.

People may feel very passionately about this issue. However, when it was debated in an open forum at the State Body Meeting, little decent was raised. So, for this year, the opposing point of view was accepted and implemented. Those of you who are angry about the short notice should see it from the opposing view. This decision was made in November. Planning the State Tournament is not done over night. Waiting until four weeks before the tournament date to raise your objections is inconsiderate to those volunteering to plan a successful event.

Does this mean this issue is closed? NO! I am sure it will be open for debate on the floor of next years State Body Meeting. Come and be heard. USA Wrestling-Kansas is composed of four districts and almost 200 chartered clubs. WE ARE USA WRESTLING-KANSAS. It is the sum of these parts that make us great. Talk of boycotting the state tournament over this issue is ludicrous. I hope it was said in jest.

Mark Stanley
President
Junior Viking Wrestling

Did someone see logic just fly out the window?

Let me see if I understand the arguments correctly. A Saturday morning weigh in should be allowed for people that live 1 to 2 hrs away so they don't have to afford a hotel.

I explained that my mother is capable of driving the distance every day for her commute so the argument is mute.

Then the argument of what about western ks people not being able to get off of work. (Funny I don't see any Western KS people complaining yet). Think about this rationally. Do you think that people in Liberal are going to drive from Liberal to Topeka (a 8 hr. journey?) so they can make the weigh-in for the morning? Of course not. I don't know many people that are going to jeopardize a wrestler's tourney in that manner.

A remote weigh-in? The same arguement applies as the previous example. A kid is going to weigh in at 5:00 in western KS, drive across the state that night for wrestling the following morning.

From what I can gather from past experience, most people will want the Satuday weigh in option as a safety net, just in case a wrestler is not down to weight.

I mean come on, this is the veiled argument, right?

Jeremy,
While I was in attendance at the state meeting I don't recall the subject of weigh-in times being brought up. I'm not questioning whether it was or not as I was in and out of the room a great deal as D2 had it's own issues with which to contend. But, in reading the minutes again I can find nowhere that it indicates it was discussed. Am I missing it? And, when it was discussed was it noted about the 7:00pm cut-off time?
You will note from my original post on this subject I never questioned the elimination of the Saturday weigh-in. Without rereading all the posts in this thread I believe only one or two posts have been in favor of keeping the Saturday weigh-in. The question was and continues to be why the 7:00pm cut-off? So please all of you people quit trying to change the subject! I am as much of a supporter of Leanna and Greg's efforts as anyone and feel the job should be as close to a dictatorship as possible. At our tournaments we have a 9:00pm cut-off on Fridays and that is with a Saturday weigh-in and mostly people attending from in district. We know that our people are going to be there setting up anyway so why not weigh-in as late as possible.

oh, the 7:00 pm time cut off. sorry.

It has to do with the East West classic being held at the Expo. This way the kids can enjoy watching our elite seniors one more time.

As for you initial post, it just said something about the farthest regions.

The Graters are getting a bad rap on this issue.

For the past six years I have had the honor of working state weigh-ins. Five of those years as your State Competition Director, and the last two being on the State Tournament Committee.

The last three years I have been watching the numbers for weigh-ins. Here they are:
Over 1450 wrestlers are scheduled to weigh-in at the State Tournament. Weigh-ins start at 4 pm, by 6pm we have around 50-60 wrestlers left to weigh-in. At 7 pm last year we have 35 wrestlers left to weigh-in when we shut it down for the night. Saturday Morning from 6am to 7 am we had 8 wrestlers come in to weigh-in. three of them were from Friday night weigh-in trying to make weight. The past six years these numbers stayed pretty close, they do move up and down a little, but not much.
For the past two years, I have been talking with the District Directors, the coaches who help with weigh-ins, and many other coaches and parents that I know through out the state about changing the Weigh-in times. NO ONE had a problem with this idea. After state last year I approached the State Tournament Committee with this New weigh-in time line, we then took it to the State Excutive Council meeting in September, finding no objections, I brought it up at the State body meeting in my report on last years tournament. I ask for feed back and have recieved none until last week. I spoke to the State Council again in Febuary one last time to make sure the no one had voiced any concern on this issue. The committee then went with new weigh-in time line.
I think we gave everyone plenty of time to voice there concern on this issue. I do not see any reason to keep weigh-in opens until 9 pm. We are not there much after weigh-ins close. We get there at 8 am to set up as soon as weigh-ins are over we close up shop and spend a little time with the Family. I know other tournaments have weigh-in until 9pm, but the do not start at 4pm like we do. After 6pm we weigh-in less than 3 percent of the kids who wrestle at state.
I am always looking for ways to improve our State Tournament, please keep those ideas coming.

Ned Price
State Competition Director

Dear Vince:

Good to see you back, again. Sunday, February 29, 2004 at approximately 2:00 P.M. you deleted your previous posts and stated you would not be back, for your mental sanity.

I laughed aloud to my wife, asked her to come to the computer moniter and read your post. I mentioned that you would be back within twenty four (24) hours. I was correct as the following morning, Monday, March 01, 2004 at approximately 08:30 A.M., you posted regarding a willingness to pay some high school wrestlers between $200.00 to $300.00 for volunteering to run the Saturday morning weigh-in.

Shucks Vince, before I could volunteer my two (2) sons, you deleted that post.

Anyway, welcome back!

Richard,

Yes I am back. I am addicted to it like you seem to be, so I realized you were probably thinking something like that (that I would be back in no time). I do not intend to post approximately 37 times in a day like you did on Sunday though. That was quite a day you put in on Sunday. You must have been glued to the site that day.

I will admit that my posting on this topic has not been my finest hour on the forum. I deleted all my postings a little bit due to you but mostly due to Leanna's remarks about people complaining who do not volunteer. I get as tired of that defense to a tournament policy as I am sure they do when someone says all these decisions are based on money. Your remarks bothered me a little but not that much because I know you have the same effect on a number of other people and I normally do not put much consideration to your postings when you get feisty with people. I do however respect the informational things and articles that you contribute from time to time and in fairness to my remark about your Sunday postings I realize that many of your postings from that day were those types of postings.

As far as my offer went to pay $100 to $300 for high school wrestlers to conduct a Saturday morning weigh-in, I think it was not correct for me to put that on the forum so I deleted it. I still did let Leanna and Jeremy know though that the offer was still good. I still would do it if they would have one. Jeremy gave me a very nice reply though yesterday and let me know that hiring high school wrestlers or anyone to do a Saturday morning weigh-in was just not going to happen. But Richard, if you can convince them to change their mind on this I will be more than happy to pay your children to conduct a Saturday morning weigh-in.

Richard, I really am not that bad of a guy and I am sure you are not either. I will try not to take your objections to my posts that personally in the future. Thanks for welcoming me back.

Vince,
I'm still not clear as to why you want a Saturday weigh-in so badly. Is it because you don't want to spend Friday night in Topeka or that he is pulling so much weight? I would highly recommend that you take him to the Senior Classic Friday night as it is a great event. If he is pulling a lot of weight the most he will lose over night is approximately 1# anyway. If that isn't enough you should consider moving him up a weight. It will pay dividends later in high school.

Dear Vince:

I have never thought you to be a bad guy.

Because we disagree on certain issues does not make you my mortal enemy. As adults, we should be able to disagree in an agreeable manner.

Sportsfan02:

I am sorry it took me a little bit to respond, just got back on. First let me say that Jacob is a little borderline right now. Two weekends ago he was left with his grandmother while my wife and I were out of town and Grandma let him go wild on his junk food. He also took that weekend off from wrestling. I purposedly took him to the Platte City weigh-in Friday night (he wanted to wait until Saturday morning) because I wanted him to see that he needed to be careful since he was going to have to weigh-in Friday night at State this year. Well he weighed 150.4 Friday night. He has been weighing 147 to 148 at his previous weigh-ins this year. My personal philosophy on what is best for him is that No. 1 if he wants to maintain a weight that is his decision not mine unless he is trying to go too far and secondly I believe it is best for him to wrestle at his best shape weight. I believe he would be at his best shape somewhere close to 145. He is a typical 7th grader who likes his junk food. He has never missed a weight or had to run at the weigh-in site to make it. His personal decision to want to stay at 150 is that the next jump in 12 & under is a 10% increase to 165. That is a pretty big jump and I think you can understand what his personal motivation is there.

I did however see his main competitor at District last year come in at 120.6 and was not able to compete. This young man was pretty disappointed as would my son if he does not make it this year.
I believe he will though and if he doesn't it will be a good lesson for him.

So I do have a little personal motivation in my desire to keep the Saturday weigh-in but mainly I liked having the option available for the other kids too who might be need the extra day to make weight. I mean they are still just grade school kids and this is State. I think we should still provide them every opportunity to make it. I think if the normal tournament during the season gives them the Saturday morning option that it should still be available for State.

I also think it should be available especially with the early Friday 7 PM cutoff for those from great distances who really can't take a vacation day or have to be at their jobs that day. This would be a final chance for them to if they pull in around Midnight. I agree with you (I think you said it) who said that they didn't like letting their kids travel distances with other people.

We have not stayed in Topeka the last couple of years. We believe he does better at home, so we have just driven up Friday night, Saturday morning and Sunday morning. We are very fortunate living in Overland Park and being able to do this. The Senior Classic event sounds interesting. My wife has always taken him to the State weigh-in and she would not be interested in staying for that. But I might be able to get sometime off this year to do that myself. What time does it get done approximately? I would not want him to get back too late that night before State.