Legrider's statement is one for thought. Why does it cost so much for the card, two extra trips to two tournaments that mean nothing except as qualifiers, when you could just go and wrestle? I imagine that the champions at Tulsa are better than 90 per cent of the champions in their corresponding weight from kids state. Do you need a card at Tulsa? I don't know if you presently do but you didn't used to. the tournament gets over with in a timely manner, there is a lot of excellent competition, and everyone goes home. We could do that in kansas if the kids side of the program didn't have to support the older kids and thier coaches. Bottom line is that is why there will always be two qualifiers in this state when there doesnt need to be any--- its not a popular view amongst the kids and coaches that spend the money you raise going all over the place to wrestle but it makes a lot of sense to do it like Oklahoma does. In spite of the defense that this system is the only way that the older kids can attain the expertise that they do, I don't see Oklahoma falling down too much.

Crash99 - the same thing is said in high school. Some regionals are stacked in high school while others are very easy. There are very quality wrestlers that don't qualify for State due to having a stacked regional.

Careful! You could be tried for treason.

I think budke is right. One of the brackets they are talking about in D3 is my son's bracket in D1, so I have paid alot of attention to it. In D1 it will play out tomorrow. Because D1S only had 3 wrestlers at 10U 100 the 5th place at D1N gets to go to Districts. In D1N at this weight the match between 4th and 5th when they met at subs was a 1 point decision. If the 5th place winner ends ups stopping the 4th place person from going to state is that fair?? I believe that is the question. How do you decide fair. It will be decided on the mat. This is Kids Wrestling. It is designed to prepare kids for high school and for a fortune few college. The more matches the better. Tomorrow I will be cheering for the girl from Rossville, but if she loses to the 5th place finisher from her own Sub-districts, I think it is fair. It was decided on the mat. How much fairer could it get.

The system we have in D1 is fine. It works and gives kids a chance to wrestle another week. People remeber this is kids wrestling, the more mat time a kid gets the better off they are. I get on this forum and people are always complaing that something isn't fair but know matter how it is done there is going to be someone who doesn't like it and crys that it isn't fair. The qualifiers are great it prepares kids not only for high school wrestling but also teaches them some lessons for life. A state tournament that accepts everyone would be a zoo and would take 3 days. The system is fine the way it is.

Mike farleigh please move to Oklahoma if it is so superior to kansas, why stay in an inferior state. A card costs that much because that is mainly for the insurance through USA wrestling and to help support our olympians. Usa wrestling gives a small amount of money to our olympians so they can train. The kids side doesn't support the older kids and coaches. the older kids pay the same amount as the younger ones and I don't know of a single coach who doesn't pay their own way to the tournaments every week. How do the younger kids support the coaches??

Originally the cost of the Card and the tournaments were set to cover the costs of running the kids programs. Then surcharges were added to provide funding for the cadets program, the southernplains camp, etc. etc. that is fine if you are participating in it , but if you are not, many felt you should not have to pay for the cadet program, and money from kids tournaments and kids qualifiers, and kids state, should stay in that program. since there are much fewer participants in the cadets and freestyle programs in the summer, it was decided long ago that the kids programs could fund it so that it would be cheaper for the guys doing the summer stuff. The cadet coaches are supported when they go to Fargo, Southern plains, etc. by usawrestling. there have been others besides myself that have brought up this point as the card prices were increasing, but for the most part the argument to make the cards as reasonable as possible fell on deaf ears as most of the folks on the governing boards were participating either as parents or coaches in the funded summer programs. That may sound as though it is a bunch of hooey but the guys that have been in this sport since the seventies and eighties can attest to much of what I have said about the escalating costs. As far as moving out of the state, My kids are all through wrestling at the kids and high school levels, so I don't
have to make the choice, but I would still point out that even though everyone figures the usaks. program is superior, all the toughest and best in Kansas go to Tulsa every year to see how they stack up, and Kansas wrestlers don't seem to have any more, if even as many, champions as anyone else. Our program is not inferior to Oklahoma's, its just more expensive.

wrestlingmom, I understand that more densly populated areas will have more participants naturally. and with the argument with high school regionals being stacked it doesn't seem to fly well since our KSHSAA has the schools grouped into size by population density into 6A, 5A, etc., etc.

I just believe that the state qualifiers should be equal across the state and if you only have 4 placers at the North subs and only 2 from the South then the District bracket should only be 6 wrestlers in a bracket. and this needs to be uniform for all 4 districts. Fortunately, this usually only happens on the ends weights of the age groups (either lightweights or heavyweights) but can happen in the middle weights. Maybe a study needs to be done to possibly eliminate some of the numerous weight classes so this doesnt happen as often. (but that is a totally different subject that I won't get into any detail with)

Often we lose sight of who this great sport is targeting. It's easy to say that it' fair or unfair to allow a wrestler a second chance. As I see it, this sport is about helping kids develope responsible in young adults. I know as an Adult I've received many second chances. Any opportunity we have to involve kids we should, it's better than leaving home. With all of the negative influences kids see and hear from day to day from Rapper, drug dealer, MTV, TV, etc... We as parent should jump to the chance o place our youth into a positive environment. I guess the real questions is, are as adults trying to help kids build character and a complete individual or is just wanting our kids to win? I would rather see a kid who has paid price all year be rewarded with a second chance to wrestle than see a state tournment with a bye.

Second chances are not all bad, everyone has them at one time or another in their life and it isn't always fair. As a mother I am very proud of my son who got hit in the nose by another kid and did not throw a punch back. He has placed 2nd almost every tournament all year and ended up not placing for state because of a cheap shot. The other kid lost a point but when it took 3 to 4 times to land the hit to the nose I feel he should of been thrown out. My son ended up losing to someone he had beat before with ease and I feel he should be going to state. He didn't get his second chance but instead shook the boys hand, coaches hands and came off the mat with respect and tears. He won't get his second chance till next year. Is this fair? I would much rather my child have respect, and good character than to be only concerned with winning.

I agree with Chief Renegade. Survival of the fittest and hello to competition. If the 5th placer had a bad day of wrestling at subs the district still needs to take the top wrestlers to state. The fourth placer should be up to the challenge. And as for why we even have a sub-districts is kind of a due process. The kids still gear up for that tournament and the kids after subs that make it to Districts but don't go on to State get the sense of accomplishment that they made it to Districts and can set their goals accordingly for the next year. These kids that get that "second chance" as a 5th placer can move on with so much confidence it is amazing. Half the battle is in the mind. Good Luck to all wrestlers and parents and coaches at State.

Reply for Scooby----I know of a "second chancer" from our club that ended up placing 5th at State.

We live in a state where 50% of the high school wrestlers in 5A & 6A qualify for state so I really don't see why anyone has an issue with giving as many kids a chance to get to state where only sixteen kids in each age and weight grouping make it. It is all just preparation for the next level. The more opportunities to get on the mat and wrestle the better it is for ALL kids who are competing.