I would have to say 5A and 4a were pretty close then 6A and you can never say 123 in the breath of 6A let me know what you think

I notice you haven't crawled out of your cave yet. Hoxie spanked the 2nd and 3rd place teams in 6a.....pretty sure I just said 123a and 6a in the same breath. Also Abilene won 4a and we dirt rolled them at beloit. Oh and I believe I heard rumors of Hoxie beating Ark City's record of 214 pts in a state tourny, not sure though.

I thought that 6A was pretty weak this year as far as individual champions go. A lot of those guys had double digit losses and really weren't championship quality in a better year. Bogart, Hill, Garcia, and Hemmerling were great though. 5A and 4A were really solid, especially the 171 and 119 pound brackets in both. I would like to see Gardner, Kriegbaum, and Garcia wrestle each other, to bad it'll never happen.

Gardner and Garcia wrestled this year with Gardner winning 3-0. I'd also put my money on Gardner against Kreigbaum any day

This is basically a mute argument. The talent level of each class fluctuates each year as has been repeatedly stated in other threads. Every team has 14 varsity wrestlers, except those schools that can't generate enough interest in the sport to fill a roster. It is not only 321A schools that have opens. There are some larger schools without full teams. The only difference that class indicates is the size of the school, and that does not have a lot to do with individual talent. There have been lots of wrestlers from small schools that could whoop anyones' butt and the same can be said about some wrestlers from larger schools. But that does not answer which class is ultimately better. Until the powers that be bring back Grand State there will never be an answer to this argument. And even Grand State would only answer which individual and team in a given year was dominate. It would not be the end all answer to which class is the best, that changes from year to year, just like the West vs. East argument. Both of those arguments are just silly and ignorant. AC_Wrestler, I agree with Kyle_Dub#2... Crawl out of your cave and wake up. Just because the champ at one class could probably beat the champ in a different class, does not mean that whole weight from that one class is better than that weight in every other class. Grow up and when you graduate from high school, maybe you can come back on this forum and contribute some intelligent posts. If you have already graduated, you are a sad, sad individual...
I am from a district with some large schools and you, AC_Wrestler are an embarrasment and and do not represent the intellegent and rational beings from the 4A,5A and 6A classes. Props to Hoxie, I have followed your season through the media. Good job! Do not let jealous nay sayers take anything away from your fabulous season.

No kidding, i mean c'mon first off 5A and 6A 50% of the athletes make it to state, what kind of crap is that, there would not be as much respect for a wrestler if you came out of an 8 man bracket and make it to another tournament, you only have to win a few matches in one day, sometimes if that, some people with opens in their bracket only have to win once and lose 2 times and still make it. And for THIS YEAR hoxie qualifying 13 individuals, gettin first at state by a large margin, and then on top of that beating MOST 4-5-6A teams they competed against, duals, and tourneys. Now if 321A-4A had 8-man brackets and qualified just as many people, i'm sure 3-4A would walk away with it most years.

In every weight class there could be a better wrestler from any of the four divisions, but it various from year to year. 3-2-1A wrestlers beat 4, 5, or 6A wrestlers and vice versa throughout the season. I would have to say that Hoxie definitely has one of the best teams in the state if not the best this year, but I also remember when Ark City ran away with titles year after year. And as far as the point totals having anything to do with how great a team may be is inconclusive in my eyes. The point totals could be due to the caliber of competition that these teams may encounter, not to take away from Norton or any of those other great teams. Thats all I have to say about that!

I�m getting awful tired of reading this crap and I ain�t even from Ark City, so lets look at the facts. Wrestling is no different than any other sport, track baseball, football, basketball etc. when it comes to large school vs small school with the exception that a good small school athlete can often make the team in a big school.

Four year state champions for Ark City

4 Justin Ware, Arkansas City 1989-92
4 Devin Bahm, Arkansas City 1993-96

Four year champions for Hoxie

?

Three year state champions for Ark City
3 Jim Ramirez, Arkansas City 1969-71
3 Chad Beeson, Arkansas City 1989-91
3 Chris Hernandez, Arkansas City 1989-91
3 Scott Goodale, Arkansas City 1990-92
3 Allen Hankins, Arkansas City 1992-94
3 Travis Vandever, Arkansas City 1995-97

Three year state champions from Hoxie

3 Wayne Shepard, Hoxie 1955-57
3 Steve Pope, Hoxie 1972-74

You are right, I guess it is a lot harder to win three years in a row in 3-2-1A so that makes this class the toughest one.

But to scoring 218 in 3-2-1A is the same as 214 in 5A? Give me a break I guarantee you, if that 214 point team from Ark City had wrestled in 3-2-1A that year, they would have had 14 placers, not 10 and most would have been 1-2 place

Hoxie has a great team this year and did beat some bigger schools.It happens, but not nearly as much with boys as with girls sports in small schools. The past few years they have had a great program. But come back and really brag when you have what Ark City has. And while you are at it, look over your shoulder at that St. Francis school, they are coming after you.

State Championships All-time 18 Arkansas City 1964-2003
� Consecutive 11 Arkansas City 1988-98

BTW, I haven�t seen Ramirez around in a stripped shirt lately, does he only do Big 12 now?

I'll see you all next year, It's basketall tournament time now, and baseball and softball right around the corner. Time to move on.

first off we didnt ask who was better between Ark City and Hoxie, we are talking about sizes of schools, you mentioned St. Francis was comin up behind Hoxie while leaving out Norton, oberlin, Effingham, but you failed to mention schools behind Ark City to back up your notion of bigger schools being better, a Better size would be solid with a bunch of awesome schools, Although hoxie made it look like the rest of the teams suck, it is just because they are so good, i would put money on norton and the next 2 or 3 teams at state to take all the other big schools, not throwing minneapolis and Beloit in there. So where are your other schools to back up your mouth. ?

I'm a 321A fan, but it's my opinion 4A is as tough as any. I think if there was a dual between the 3 and 4A champs, it would be very close. But 4A is much more deep. The 5th place finishers in 4A are better than 321A. However, the best team in Kansas, no doubt, is the 321A Hoxie Indians

I'm sick of hearing that 6A isn't good because the champions really aren't that great because of their record. Let's relate this to other sports. In basketball, baseball, volleyball, softball, and football you go to Sub-State or Regionals or whatever and basically your record is erased. You get your loss and your done, you win both and you're in the state tournament. Your record on the season only matters for ranking. For example, in 2001 there was a volleyball team from KC I think that upset a few teams in regionals and made it to state. They were seeded eighth and their record was not that great. A little over .500 I think (I'm trying to be correct, but my memory is a little fuzzy) Anyway, they were seeded dead last and ended up getting second place, and they deserved it. They were a very talented team, and they came together when it mattered. When you go to state for wrestling, your record only counts for your seeding. You could be seeded last and end up winning the tournament. Don't take away these guys's accomplishments, please. Wrestling is competitive, but it's supposed to also be enjoyable. Records will be forgotten, but the color of the medal will be remembered.

to: wrestling lover
How many males are included - eligible to try out for wrestling in a 6A 5A school??
How many in a 123A School??
Ask your coach this, please - you have (6A - 5 A)
what? 800 1000 plus young men & women to participate - Hoxie (and the NWKL have 50-60??)
Look this up Hoxie beat everyone including schools
with larger in enrollment
Hoxie rulz and has no fear
PS: Hovpen, I once thought you were cool - I was wrong you are an idiot

Why, I posted nothing but fact, hoxie can't shine Ark City's shoes until they win at least 15 titles, six to go. A big fish in a little pond. Still, a good program for the size school they are.
Besides, I can't stand being cool. I'd rather be right, and I am.

Hmmmm....let me see, last I checked, wrestling was an individual sport. Team scores are nice and all...I never blamed a teammate when I lost, I just thanked him when I won...

And hovpen, Chris Hernandez only won 2 state titles, I've seen the tape. Who was the ref in his finals matches? Do you have access to that info?

Hovpen: A big fish in a little pond? What about 5A being composed of 32 schools (and do they all wrestle?). 321A had 50+ schools score points last weekend at the state tournament ! This makes Hoxie's achievement of scoring 218 points even more incredible/impresive as there were more schools with whom there was a possibility of sharing points!!!

Could be Ark City is the big fish in the little pond.

Had Ark City been in 3-2-1A guys they would have scored more than that. Besides, no way can anyone disagree with you guys, next fall you will be betting Hoxie can whip Olathe North in football.
Sorry Padan, Chris Hernandez won titles in 1989, 1990, AND 1991, GO FISH.
Sorry I don't believe Hoxie is God's gift to wrestling. Heck, you guys would have McPherson College beating KSU in football too.

OK, whatever you say as your logic is overpowering.

Hovpen-

Who did Hernandez beat in the finals, and what were the scores?

And who were the refs?

You know, Chris Hernandez was a heck of a wrestler and it would be very difficult no matter how much you really tried to convince anyone who ever saw him wrestle that he was lucky or referee blessed. Geez I am not from Ark City and chased them for years but man that is sort of stretching your credibility there.