I think that the stalling rule should reflect an article published in Wrestling USA magazine. They suggest that when an official judges that a wrestler is stalling, they stop the match and the other wrestler gets his/her choice of top, bottom, or neutral. This way the wrestler has to earn the point, not have it given to them by an official. Many wrestlers would take the down position and work for an escape. The article also stated that there would be a limit to stalling. After that, I am not sure if the wrestler would be DQ'd or if points would then be awarded. The article was in the most recent edition of this magazine. Any thoughts?

Set a criteria please. Boo on stalling (since I am in a boo mood today)

Sounds like you got a case of the mondays!

Very much so.

Dear Matchbox,
I would like to respond to your post, not in defense of myself but rather to explain what was happening. I knew it wasn't freestyle, and I wasn't stalling. If you were down on the mat you would have heard not seen what was going on. Me and Nathan were discussing a fishing trip we were planning on taking this summer. We weren't sure of where we were gonna go or what type of bait would be best for crappy on a warm day with overcast skies. And when I had my arms extended if it looked like I was just laying there sorry, I was explaing how big the crappy I caught last summer was. So there. And congratulations to Nate for once again keeping me at bay with his impeciable take down techniques. So thanks for your concern, and maybe I will let you know how the fishing trip goes. Thanks,
Michael Steinmetz
Turner Wrestling
1x state champ
2x runner-up
and still stalling

That's a good one Steinmetz, LOL, are you sure you are not from Manhattan?

In response to dmoles, I watched that match too and I saw it completely differently. Kammerer never got off Johnson's hips and repeatedly threw in a double leg ride to no effect. With 10 seconds to go, he lost his cool and essentially forced the ref to call stalling on himself because he threw his hands in the air in frustration at not being able to turn Johnson with a double leg ride in place. This match was correctly officiated and I have no love for either Manhattan wrestlers or officials. I would submit that it is a rare good wrestler who ever succeeds with a leg ride technique in this day and age.

I would submit that in this day and age of freestyle and reckless abandon it is rare to see a wrestler that has taken the time to get good in the legs. It is a dying art and that is a shame.

Hey Steinmetz, next time try telling Payne the funniest joke you can think of. Maybe while he is laughing you will have an oppertunity to escape or reverse. And if that doesnt work, throw that white powder stuff in his eyes.

Actually, I was mistaken when I said I have no love for Manhattan wrestlers. I forgot about Prant Garker. He is perhaps the only wrestler on this forum who singlehandedly raises the literary content of any debate in which he participates.

And Westfahl, you are right as usual, it is a dying (dead) art.

Naw not dead, come on up to the NCAA's, Okie State still has some real good ones. You'll see a lot of legs in that little show. lol

Digger, Take a clue!!!!!!I have been actively involved with wrestling for over 40 years and have seen matches from the days gone by where stalling was not only encouraged, but where the best stallers were awarded points for riding time. This was some of the most BORING wrestling I have ever watched. The National Federation of High School Associations has adopted its current stalling criteria to make the sport more enjoyable for fans like me. I personally appreciate the current rules. If I drive 60 miles to watch a dual, I want to see some action. If you take a look at the best wrestlers and wrestling teams in the state, what you see is action packed, in your face, risk taking, wrestling. The good wrestlers and good teams rarely get called for stalling because they are proactively involved in an "IN YOUR FACE" style of wrestling where anything can happen. Generally, the best coached teams embrace risks taking moves which make the sport enjoyable to the fan. As times change, a young wrestler needs to embrace the changes with a POSITIVE attitude in order to become a better wrestler. I would suggest that if you are concerned about STALLING, take a look at YOUR style. If you are one of those guys who continually get hit by the official for stalling, YOU are probably one of those individuals who will rarely get a second look from a college coach and will likely rarely stand at the top of the awards stand. Quit pointing the STALLING finger at someone else. The ref's do the best job they can with the stalling rules provided. When you hit the mat, perform for the fans. We paid admission. If you can't change your ATTITUDE and learn to embrace the SPIRIT of the rules or the sport, you should look for another sport. Cease your complaints and go to work!

Actually avidfan, the best coached teams are the ones that do fundemental wrestling the best. You know, set-ups, good shots, hard stand-ups and bars and halfs. More often than not it is the high-risk wrestlers who lose at crunch time.

Over the years I have had the occasion to sit in on a couple of Dan Gable's clinics. With all of his experience and background, the thing he teaches above all else is doing the moves that beat 100 percent of the people all of the time. High-risk moves don't do that; just good singles and doubles.

As for the stalling issue, I think we should take a page from the colleges in how stalling is called and officials should be trained that way. No, we shouldn't do away with it, but we need to fix what we have.

And in so far as it goes, if you aren't "entertained" enough by the product on the mat then stay home. These 14-18 year-old kids aren't doing this for your pleasure, they're doing it for their own.

Did I say anything about good solid fundamentals. Good solid fundamentals are part of that "IN YOUR FACE STYLE". Watch Hoxie! They practice the fundamental with precision. They move off the legs and go for the fall. This action makes wrestling interesting. You rarely see coach Baker complain about a stalling call, because his kids are always working. Forget the tie-up and shoot a shot. If you do tie-up, take a shot within the first 5-8 seconds. I have watched alot of NCAA wrestling in my day. I especially enjoy watching and learning from the officials and wrestlers. A couple of years ago I had the opportunity to see a video of NCAA official David Frisch explaining the basics of a stall call. All hich school coaches, wrestlers, & officials should watch Frisch, a highly regarded NCAA official from Colorado Springs, explain the fundamentals of stalling (you might recall that he worked Sandersons final NCAA match last year). Watch the video and you will understand and appreciate our current stalling rules. This all ties together. Wrestle hard, you don't get called for stalling & the fans get their admission refunded with excitement. Might I suggest that the coaches contact the KSHSAA to see if Frisch can be hired to come to Kansas for their annual coaches meeting next fall! Perhaps this would be the first step to get everyone from all corners of the state on the same page.

Sorry Steinmetz, I wasn't trying to diss you or anything it just looked like blatant stalling in my eyes. You would try a stand up or switch off the whistle, and Payne would break you down and then you laid there, but of course I wasn't aware of the fishing trip. Good luck next year though, your a great wrestler and no one can say any different.

Steinmetz- you have now taken my place as "Funniest 171 Pounder on the Forum." Not only because you're hilarious, but because I weighed in at 196 yesterday. Booooyah.

About riding legs- I think it is perhaps a dying art form at the high school level. I've seen some of the best leg-riders in the state of Kansas (both Scott and Ben Coleman), and I agree it can be very effective. However for unathletic guys like me, riding legs is Kryptonite and makes for quick reversals.

And don't just love me. Love all Manhattan wrestlers. We're fun. (Except Potter.)