Well, well, well. Mr. Perez, this should make you happy. I feel the need to vent on a few topics, so here it is:

Folkstyle Season
Move Kids' season to November through February. Drop 16U, add 6U. Change a few weight classes around to decrease money/time spent (awards/2 man round robins) on 2 kids (see heavy little kids classes and light older kids classes) Have Kids' state 1 or 2 weeks before High School state. That way, people who want to watch both or have older kids can still attend both.

Freestyle/Greco Season
Start it right after folkstyle season. I mean the weekend after state, there should be a freestyle tournament. We as a state are "catching up" to others, but we will never equal or surpass them until we get a longer season to allow us to get more experience.

Know the Rules
This made me mad, so as stated, I am venting. I was coaching on Mat 7 on Saturday afternoon and had a question for the referee. Knowing the right thing to do (go to the table and wait politely for a break in action) I was told, and given a warning, that I could not be at the table and to get back in my corner, not only by the referee, but by the table workers. Workers, before you rip a coaches' a$$ for doing what he is supposed to do, then rip him saying it's not a rule and that he/she doesn't know what they are talking about, you need to get around wrestling a bit. MAYBE THAT IS WHAT THE WOKERS ARE USED TO. COACHES DON'T GO TO THE TABLE ANYMORE. THEY B!TCH AND RIP THE REF FROM THEIR CORNER. Referee, don't know you, but enough is said from this already to know that you were in the wrong. Ramble, ramble, ramble.

Be nice.
Dang, people are just mean now. Someone walks by and runs into you, then keeps going like nothing happened. I may not be the nicest folk, but if I run into someone, I am going to at least say "sorry" or the new-age slang term "my bad" Yelling at refs, coaches, wrestlers for not doing the right thing, rediculous. Everyone is doing their best to win and be fair, but we all have shortcomings sometimes. Get over it. Also, the stealing has to stop. WOW!!! Every 10 minutes there was a report of missing items (some of this can also be solved by watching your stuff!!) Parents, take a Zanax or something and chill out. Don't live your life through your kids. Don't abuse them (emotionally too!) because they lost or made a mistake. Also, no need to go bizerk during their matches. Calm down and watch it, learn some stuff, especially if you have never wrestled before (see above)

Support each other.
Never in my life have I told someone I hope they lose. He)l, I hate to lose as much as everyone else. Take it graciously and work your a$$ off so you don't get beat again. ALL WRESTLERS AND ALL PARENTS AND ALL COACHES AND ALL REFEREES AND ALL WORKERS NEED TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER. WRESTLING IS A DYING SPORT AND WITHOUT EACH OTHERS SUPPORT IT WILL CONTINUE TO GO DOWNHILL.

State Tournament
Very, very well ran!!! But we need more voulenteers. I was unable to do much because of my knee (roll mats, etc.) but I still helped work a table on Sunday when I was not coaching. ALL THIS IS FOR THE KIDS, PEOPLE. DON'T BE A TAKER, GIVE TOO!! HELP NOT ONLY YOUR SON/DAUGHER/CLUB BUT ALL OTHER PEOPLE IN THAT ARENA HELP MAKE THE TOURNEY RUN MORE EFFICIANTLY. Gonzo, Mrs. Grater, Gibby, Mr. Price, Mr. Juby, Mrs. Juby, Mr. Sheets, Mr. Hinderliter, all the district directors and assistants, referees, coaches, workers, and anyone else I have forgotton, THANK YOU FOR YOU HOURS/DAYS/MONTHS/YEARS OF TIME YOU PUT IN TO MAKE THE STATE TOURNEY AND KANSAS WRESTLING BETTER.

Summary
Be nice, respectful, supportful, and gracious of everyone you meet. YOU OR THEY MAY NOT BE AROUND A NEXT TIME TO MEET AGAIN.

Thanks for the space, this is all for now
Brett Shoffner

Sound words of advice from a kid that's not even able to vote yet. If you ask me, it looks like some people could learn from this young man.

Thanks Shoff, you already know I've got a tremendous amount of respect for you. Good luck in all you do. I'm looking forward to the freestyle season as well. Freestyle - isn't that what the boys do after the men wrestle in the morning?

gibby

I just love you, Brett Shoffner! Well, said and amen. I guess I better say that this is Ms. Jenni and not Coach Ed or else there will be another love triangle on the web.

You go, boy! My (our) sentiments exactly.

While I agree with most of this, if you move Kids wrestling season to start in November, you will have conflicts with Kids football season. We certainly can't have that!

Gaither--If I have told you once, I have told you a thousand times....football is a secondary sport!

Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully this will open a few of those peoples' eyes.

Jim Gaither!! How dare you!!! I think the kids/parents probably would not mind missing 1 or 2 weekends of either/or.

"Folkstyle Season
Move Kids' season to November through February. Drop 16U, add 6U. Change a few weight classes around to decrease money/time spent (awards/2 man round robins) on 2 kids (see heavy little kids classes and light older kids classes) Have Kids' state 1 or 2 weeks before High School state. That way, people who want to watch both or have older kids can still attend both."

This was brought up at the state meeting two years ago as the KWCA wanted us to move our season up as well. As was explained at the time, it would be nearly impossible to move up our season, with the high school wrestling and bb seasons still going on, we would have trouble getting facilities for subs and districts.

Wouldn't be that hard. not every school hosts a league or a sub-state or whatever.

There are still plenty of places to have it, heck, highly probable that the places they are now will be open then.

But whateva...

"Sportfan02, I would agree with Brett. As far as having trouble getting facilities. I guess I do not quite understand that because we are still having a lot of tournaments during the high school wrestling season and bb tournaments. I have to believe you could find facilities available somewhere."

As I stated in a previous thread on a different subject, in our school system on a good year we have one or two dates in which to hold an invitational. I would assume that most other school districts are like ours in that regard. Most years there is one weekend in which to hold a invite. So, if we get shut out of a bid to host a sub or district we are forced to go with the open date regardless of whom we might be competing with nearby for the same date. This year for instance there were no dates in which to hold an invitational for our club. In D2 there are really only 4-6 schools with the facilities to host a district tournament. Out of those only two regularly bid for a qualifier for various reasons. There are maybe a couple more that have the facilities to host a subdistrict. Out of all of those we generally end up with two clubs maximum bidding for each of the subs. Some years both bids are won by default. So, even if the idea to move the season up only effects a small number of clubs ability to host a qualifier it has an over all major effect. The people who attend the state meeting for the most part are the club and tournament directors. I trust them to know when their facilities are available.

I only have one question. What about the middle school wrestling season? Ours out in western KS run from January to the end of February. You can't do both at the same time. The kids would have to chose between school and kids.

"As I pointed out to sportsfan02 above, I believe that would be the real reason why sportfans02 and probably the Board would oppose the idea and the Board probably does not want to end high school participation at State."

I can't speak for the Board but there are no hidden agendas on my end! If I felt that changing the season would harm middle school wrestling I would have put that in my post! Middle school will sink or swim on it's own without us. From everything I see, it will swim. With the proposed change of the middle school season (if adopted), it should grow even more. This new season should quiet all the whiners like yourself for good. As a person who has attended district and state meetings for going on 20 years it really aggravates me when those who don't, try to reinvent the wheel. Then you try to blame the Board for unilateral decisions they didn't even make! What was your club's opinion on a proposed change of Kansas Kids seasons? Do you know? Did they voice it at the meeting in question? Where were you?

"Even if Kansas suddenly allowed middle school kids to do both that would not change this problem if a middle school district ends at the same time or later as yours does."

This simply isn't going to happen! Give it up! Nor should it!

This subject doesn't really concern me. I was just wondering what we would do with the middle school kids. I only have a 16 and under child that wrestles. I don't know if getting rid of that age bracket would help or not. I just want what is best for the sport. I would love to see wreslting grow in the state of Kansas.

What am I going to tell my 11 year old son, that he can't wrestle anymore in a few years, if they eliminate the 16 and under bracket because they want to make the tourney's shorter and not take up everybodies Saturday's. I agree with big fan I want to make the sport more popular but you can't punish a kid for being 16 and under or 6 and under. I have a 9 month old baby that I am going to start wrestling as soon as possible if the sport is still here, let's all do the right thing and try to make this more positive. After all are the parents wrestling or are their children.

A couple of comments.

A sport, like life, evolves. Those that don't evolve with it will be left on the wayside.

Comment number 1 - Junior high wrestling seasons are different in various areas based on the convenience for a select few (administration). Some progressive districts and leagues understand that KSHSAA extremely limits the competition of the athletes and have done one of two things; a)have the wrestling season start in October and finish in December or b)eliminated the sport altogether because participation wasn't there. The kids were either not in the room because the kids didn't want to go out or because they realized they got more mat time in two weeks of tourneys than they did in junior high. As budgets crunch, I can see more of this becomming an issue on financial grounds for the junior highs. I don't want to say if it's right or wrong because each situation is different.

Comment number 2 - though I'd hate to see it happen, dropping the 16 year olds and adding 6 year olds could be a smart move. Hear me out though. As a person that looks for a long range plan for our athletes wanting to go on to the next level, wrestling the kid's state tournament as a 15/16 year old is not where it's at - period. With that being said, I don't know exactly where the six year olds would fit into the state tournament. Remember, their weights go by 3 lbs(?). That's a whole lot more participants. The concept is interesting, the practicality is in question.

Comment #3 - Freestyle/Greco should become a standard course in our athlete's wrestling appetite. If you ask any wrestler that has come into contact with me through the freestyle/greco clubs I've coached at, they will tell you they are believers in this philosophy. Our elite athletes understand it. Our kids that desire to reach that status are working to attain it. And the high school wrestler that truely wants to compete at the next level and be recruited knows that college coaches take more stock in the Fargo results than they do high school state championships.

Sure there are kids out there that have been successful by not following this agenda, but they are the exception and not the rule. For every one person that doesn't follow this mindset, I can name ten that do.

Comment #4 - By shortening the kids season, perhaps we can eliminate some of the "burnout factor" that plagues our sport. The numbers on the age divisions don't lie. Perhaps, by shortening the folkstyle season and incorporating freestyle/greco into the mainstream, we could in fact lengthen the season and keep everyone's interest up. Sometimes a change in pace or style is all a kid needs to invigorate him. I know it does me an the kids I work with.

Suggestions for change should be in the arena of change to benefit the growth of an athlete's skill level and not because of convenience for adults. As parents (though I'm not one yet), most will forego convenience if it will help our kids develop.

"Comment number 2 - though I'd hate to see it happen, dropping the 16 year olds and adding 6 year olds could be a smart move. Hear me out though. As a person that looks for a long range plan for our athletes wanting to go on to the next level, wrestling the kid's state tournament as a 15/16 year old is not where it's at - period. With that being said, I don't know exactly where the six year olds would fit into the state tournament. Remember, their weights go by 3 lbs(?). That's a whole lot more participants. The concept is interesting, the practicality is in question."

Jeremy,
I believe some proponents in D2 have already worked the numbers on this. If we drop 16U and reduce 14U to middle school weights it works out to about the same number of matches at the qualifiers and state. I believe the tournament that was held in Lincoln this year is just the start and these type of season ending tournaments will be there regardless if USAW sanctions them or not. If I am right, the best wrestlers in the 16U age group will not be wrestling qualifiers anyway. I would like to see the 16U kids take some time off after high school season and come back ready to wrestle freestyle rather than wrestle diluted competition in the qualifiers.

Well I would like the high schoolers to not take time off and begin freestyle the Monday following state.

But just like seemingly every topic in this thread, it will never happen and if it does, it will be awhile. :rolleyes:

I am responding to the "venting" that Mr.Shoffner posted regarding the Mat 7 table workers. I was a tableworker at Mat 7 Saturday afternoon and would like to comment on the behavior of Mr. Shoffner. I have been involved with Wrestling probably longer that Mr. Shoffner has been alive, and I feel I have a grasp of the rules regarding the sport not to mention I have worked tables for several years. I worked at Mat 7 all afternoon and had no trouble from any other coach except you. I was running the time clock and had to stand up to see over you as you stood directly in front of the table with your arms folded without making any attempt to get the refs attention, while the clock was running. I beleive we were polite to you when we asked you to move over the first time and you continued to do it 3 or 4 more times. You were rude from the start and treated us with little respect. I feel every coach has the right to protest a call but you need to find a more affective way to do it. The table worker have a responsiblity to make sure every thing is fair for both wrestlers its really hard to do that when you can't see what is going on, on the mat. Being at State is stressfull for everyone, but you need to remember that the tableworkers are volunteering their time to work and they all want to do a good job.

Jenny Biddle
Winfield Wrestling Club

The 16 and under kids need to stay!!! You can't take anything from them. Because 20 years ago I wrestled for a 4A school and didn't make it to state in High School and I went out for kids and beat the kid who was the High School State Champion in 6A at Districts. You need to let those Frosh, Soph, and occasional Junior wrestle. Because it's the only way these wrestlers from 3A thru 6A have good chance of wrestling each other from across the state of Kansas. Because if they were to get rid of 16 and under, I would only have 5 more years to coach my son. And I bet there's more dad's and mom's who want to coach their sons/daughters until they're 16. I would leave the 6 and unders out. Let them try to qualify as an 8 and under. My son did and had success at the state tournament. I think Ottawa does a great job with their tournament for the 6 and under.

I agree with 7basicskills here with the exception of having U6 just qualify as a U8. Getting rid of any class is not a solution to the problem. There have been viable solutions in the past to include both divisions, U6 and U16 offered on this forum. As long as those solutions are never offered we will never know if they work or not. I just don't think that we do our sport a service by taking away additional mat time and opportunities for our wrestlers which we would be doing if we eliminate the U 16 division.

As a father of two boys who have participated in the freestyle/greco club that gibby has coached I can attest to the fact that I strongly believe that this season is very vital to being successful. I watched and yes even argued with gibby as my two boys I strongly believe improved their skill in the sport of wrestling. It would be great to see a little longer freestyle/greco season. But I disagree a little with gibby's comment on the college coaches take more stock in the Fargo Nationals when recruiting. I stongly believe now having one of my sons in a college wrestling program that Fargo is nothing more than the icing on the cake. Meaning the individual's, ability, character, willingness to get better, and most importantly their dedication to the sport is the; flour, egg, milk, baking and all the other neccessary steps in building the cake first; is far more important to the college coaches. I think the college coaches are the ones who put the icing on itself. As my son who is in college has stated many times that if he had known the move the his college coach has shown him this past year, he would have won state instead of taking third.

Now, to Mr. Shoffner's comment on more people volunteering at the state meet I strongly agree but I do have a comment on this. I believe getting volunteers will always be hard for two reasons:
1. Which is the basic excuse that all event planners and managers and workers use. This being people just don't want to help. Or 100% of the work gets completed by only 20% of the people. Well this maybe correct but look at reason #2.

2. This reason will undoubtly create a stir amongest the higher position people of the wrestling community. This is there seems to be a clique among these higher position people. The Saturday and Sunday of the Kids state tournament I was sitting at home doing not a thing. Why did I not volunteer? Well, after many times of informing individuals just to give me a call when they need help, and then not getting a call it makes you wonder they must have it under control, or they just don't want your help. Or maybe it's they don't want your help because their not sure that you will do it their way or if you might want to make a change to it. Well if you ask me if it's because of change which it probably is here is your answer to why the sport of Wrestling is as Mr. Shoffner stated in a dieing state. Take a hard look at the other sports. Have they made changes to how they do things over the past 10 years? I believe so.
Now to the clique issue, lets look at it from our everyday life. Have you held a good conversation, or even socialized with a co-worker that might be in a different department, that you normal have not associated with?
If your in school now you should know about this, and if not take yourself back to that time. Remember, how it was back then? You had your popular group of individuals, then you had the average group, and finally you have the lower classed, or should we say the "nerds". Depending on which group you were in did you even associate with someone from the other group? Bet not, because you didn't want to be banned from the group you belonged to. So maybe the higher position individuals in the wrestling community need to start involving themselves with other individuals at wrestling tournaments other than the ones they alway socialize with. Maybe, just maybe you might find that there are alot of volunteers out there just waiting to help.
Well sorry for taking so long on this but remember,
Change is difficult but highly successful.
&
For every one person you do not meet today will be one less individual you will know tommorrow.
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That one less person you know tommorrow might be the individual that goes right on by you in your time of need.