i understand the KCWA are again going to propose a state dual tournamnet to KSHSAA,
but from what i understand it will not likely pass, and the reason is that no other sport has 2 state tournaments.

the KSHSAA board i understand is made up of mostly of individuals that do not have programs themselves or do they have little interest in wrestling.

these members are elected, so it seems thats as long as we have individuals that are not interested in our cause, then things are not going to change...

..i'm not quite up to speed on the entire political/governing process, but if you have individuals in your district that are on the board, see what thier position is, and lobby for change...

perhaps if there is enough noise...the squeeky wheel will eventually get greased

Here is a link to the current KSHSAA board members. I do not see many on there that do not have wrestling in their district. If one of these board members are from your school district please seek them out and ask them to support the Dual State proposal.
http://www.kshsaa.org/committees.html

As far as KWCA ever getting a dual state proposal passed, I think they are wasting their time.

I don't mean this in a mean and nasty way, only that they've been beating their heads on an issue that, if I'm not mistaken, KSHSAA has told them to not bother them again about this issue.

Remember a couple of years ago when the Washington Wrestling Coaches Association was able to push freestyle/greco as a sport separate from folkstyle so the high school coaches could work with their athletes during the fs/gr season? It cost the group lots time/effort, possibly money to get the issue through the court system.

When the court gave the decision, a few from the wrestling community went to KSHSAA and said, they would like to see KSHSAA look into following suit. They responded by saying, in a nice way, they wouldn't change unless the courts made them. This costing money and resources, the issue was dropped for the most part.

In a nutshell, KSHSAA will not change anything unless pressured by attourneys and court decisions. Since wrestling is not a sport with tons of money to throw around, KSHSAA holds its authority over us by nothing more than financial dollars and legal strength. I think KSHSAA has its own lawyer.

I suggested to some of those in KWCA that instead of banging our heads into brick walls, just go around it. It's quite simple. There are various conventions bureaus in the state that would look into supporting this kind of tournament I'm about to suggest.

1) Have a dual tournament of champions in which you take the top two from the year prior's regional or last year's top eight from each class and have a dual tournament in December. Sure, it wouldn't be a true dual state, but it would be an effort in the right direction.

2) The chamber of commerce of the host city would guarantee rooms for the team and coaching staff. Room for parents/fans would cost, but any forward thinking chamber/conventions bureau would see the financial dollars of hosting a two day tournament that would be spent in food and tourism.

3)I don't know of any school that would say, "no I don't want our team going to an invitational that will cost nothing from our athletic department." If in the case the tourney is on a date already scheduled, the jv could attend. I can't think of many tournament directors that would remove a team and never let them come back because they were invited to a KWCA dual state tournament.

Here's an idea, lets say we can't get any of these accomplished, what's stopping us from taking the top team from each class and having a battle of champions quad tourney on Friday, the day of weigh-in for the kids state tourney. We'll give the kids a weight allowance, say 5 lbs and the kids club coaches could be their coach, thus eliminating any chance of breaking KSHSAA rules. Oh sure, they'll have to wear their kid's singlets because KSHSAA will get upset, but at least it shows KSHSAA not only our desire to have something done, but also our ability to use their rules for our advantage.

Nice work Jeremy I like the way you are thinking. If they don't want to help the High school kids out. Then the kids programs will. Its Wrestling, Its for the Kids, Kansas wrestling is tired of being a step child pushed around. Our kids are some of the best in the Nation when they have a chance to get on the mat.

Jeremy,

Chris Orr at the Salina Journal has proposed doing a "dual state" invitational in the Salina Bicentennial Center at some point in January. The teams that would be invited would be
1. top 4 teams placing at the state tournament (previous year) and the
2. top 4 teams with the most returning points.

If a team is not able to attend or meets both criteria 1 and 2 then you would just move down the list. It would be a great event that would take 2 days to complete. The problem is getting teams out of tournaments that they are already in to go to this event. You would have 8 teams from all classes for a total of 32. Although there are many flaws to this type of thing, just getting it started would be a shot in the arm that we need. What do you think?

Hell....sounds like a great Idea to me...since Orr came up with the Idea would the Sal Journal be a sponsor for the event?

To follow up on what Coach Lane has already said, I would like to see a dual tournament, here in Salina on the first Saturday after New Years. A) Because it is where I'm located and I would love to see Salina host something like this and B) because Salina is centrally located.

It seems to me, and I'm judging mostly from this area, that the first Saturday in January is not that full of tournaments. I know there are some, but it seemed to me as the lightest weekend of the season. Plus, I'm pretty sure, the Bi-Center is open that weekend.

My plan would call for a two-day tournament. Wrestling Friday would culminate with crowning state champions in each of the four classes.

Then we would come back on Saturday and wrestle things off and crown a grand state champion. I know Oregon does something very similar to this. Their activites association refused to go along with a dual state so they said fine and did their own.

I think it would be an awesome event with an awesome atmosphere.

I would love to help organize and get it put together, but I'm just not sure where to start.

"2) The chamber of commerce of the host city would guarantee rooms for the team and coaching staff. Room for parents/fans would cost, but any forward thinking chamber/conventions bureau would see the financial dollars of hosting a two day tournament that would be spent in food and tourism."

Is Salina prepared to do the above?

I would have a hard time seeing any convention bureau put up money for 32 wrestlnig teams coming in here, but who knows. Do other two-day tournaments pay for teams to come and stay at hotels? I'm just curious, I'm sure the Salina Visitors Bureau would be up for helping put the thing on, paying for hotel rooms for 32 teams I highly doubt.

This would be incredibly awesome and something I would support entirely. How could the conventions bureau not want something like this?

For each wrestler room with four kids, there are four rooms full of parents and family. So what if you give one room away for the wrestlers. Costs can be controlled by the room rental of 4 sets of parents. The costs would be dilluted somewhat by the parent support and fan base.

Then on Friday night, mom and dad go out to eat and tada, more revenue in the city. I'd like to see Topeka do something like this, but Salina would be a good choice as well.

Do we see any support on this motion from KWCA? I hope so, I'd hate to see a lack of involvement on it's part due to the fact they didn't think it up first.

sounds awesome to me

This sounds like a fantastic idea. If nothing else, this could be the "sqeaky wheel" that could show KSHSAA and the rest of the State the value of such a tournament. Congrats to the Salina Journal and Chris Orr for a great idea and let's all get behind this!

What a great idea!! But holding this tournament in January of the following year there are some problems that may arise. The first that comes to my mind is the Seniors that have graduated the past year would possibly not be able to participate. Therefore would it be a true championship and then how many comments will be made about if this person was there it would have been different. Also how would this effect the point system that each team is allow by the KSHAA? This is why I like Coach Gibson's idea of the Friday before Kids State. I think you could take the top four finishing state teams from each class and then form a 16 team bracket to determine the champion. Seeding could be done the same way as the individual State tournament is done now. This way Seniors could participate and think about all the younger wrestlers who could actually watch some high school wrestling take place. Most of this younger wrestlers are at tournaments themsleves during the regular High School season.

Boy if they did you'd see teams going to two-day tournaments like crazy and running out of points a.s.a.p.

I'd be willing to help get this dual state proposal going...just start getting tons of sponsors like the Sunflower state games and host a wrestling state dual tournament. I think another good revenue maker would be to have like what the Oklahoma University does and have an Open tournament...like the Salina Open!

The OU Open traditionally wrestles: high schoolers from noon till nine or so on friday, up til the conso semis I believe.

Then on Saturday college comes in at like 9am and starts wrestling and goes alone on the available mats til about 2pm I believe and then the high schools get say 2 mats for the remainder of the backside of their tournament and the college guys finish out on the remaining 2 mats or so when it comes down to conso and front side semis.

then after conso finals and finals are set....college and high school wrestle next available mat for their designated matches

I know then they took a break...but I never came back for any of the finals while at UCO, but then you can have say 2 mats with the high schoolers on one, and the college guys on the other.

I know it's a big money maker, but I probably just confused myself...if somebody's been to the OU open maybe you know better about it.

All i have to say is dual tournment all classes. That would be great.

great ideas! its early, so perhaps we can start getting things organized, perhaps the KWCA, will get on board with this idea, so they can arrange thier up comming schedules, for the 2004-2005 year, and schedule this tournament accordingly.

i know nothing is perfect, but it is a start, and once the first tournament is completed, then improvements, sugggestions, adjustments, can be made to try to iron out wrinkles, etc..

i hope to see a tournament in the up comming year!

Why can't they go by the school dual records for the year in question like the 2004-2005 season and hold the tourney one or two weeks after the state tourney?