It seems to me that we're seeing an influx of folks who are debating their points over who is the best at what weight in our Grand State. Thus I am casting my *one*! vote to bring back this event of yesteryear that I'd often heard stories of. I myself would love to see an event where the top 4 placers in each classification combine in a braggin rights tourney each year. If some of the top 4s are unable to compete then it could be handed down to # 5 or 6 etc in order to fill a 16 man bracket. The Salina Bicentennial Center would be a perfect site. This could take place the week or 2 after State Championships. If the KSHSAA is unwilling to get involved then perhaps the Kids organization would be willing to host the event with the proceeds going back to where most of us begin..the Kids State Federation Program. It would be nice to see a scholarship or 2 given to a worthy recipient who has been involved in wrestling who is in need of financial support or aspires to compete further or coach someday. It would be an honorable thing to have a memoriam for some of our states greatest contributors such as Bob Cairns. I realize that to get a ball like this rolling that it would entail a lot of financial backing for start-up, brainstorming, volunteers, insurance etc. But I honestly see where an event of this magnitude & quality could be well attended & profitably viable. ***Sure would be nice to see some of our sports top movers & shakers become involved in a project like this. *** Kevin :rolleyes:
P.S. As far as the comments regarding the Wichita Coliseum site for State. I've witnessed where cities actually compete for a community boosting event as this. If the price isn't right & some conditions aren't met then I say ...lets move on. We shouldn't have to pay exhorbitant prices for an event which is a boom for their locale & not be appreciated. I like the thought of combined 3A- 4A ////& 5A-6A splits. :p

I dissagree wth combining the 3-4A. keep it as it is. don't change a thinkg it will ruin the whole excitment of goig to state!!!!!!!

I agree. A Class Champion is a great accomplishment, but one true state champion really lets an athlete know that they are the best, no questions asked. California manages to have one state tournament and they have about 20X the amount of wrestlers that Kansas does. It could be very economical for the host city. Remember the NCAA record was broke this year with wrestling. I too cast my vote to bring back a grand state tournament.

Having a tourney as was suggested over the x-mas break would not be optimal as was stated in Aaron Meister post as the current season will be in full swing. Past years seniors likely not available or not in same weight or wrestling shape & manys coaches, parents, or even the KSHSAA may not allow a mid season event as this. I doubt that one would risk injury mid-season versus competing after season. I do know that Bob Phillips runs a good tournament & would like to see his involvement as well in a project like this.

Travis, I am not sure what you mean by remember the NCAA record was broken this year with wrestling. What record are you referring to?

I think every wrestling fan in Kansas would like to see the Grand State again. I don't think it will ever happen through the schools. Kevin, I think you may be on to something with the Kids Federation sponsoring the event. You may want to talk with Mr. Juby or Mr. Grater about your idea.
I don't think it will happen through the schools because of 1.money 2.all other sports and activities will want a Grand State.
While I'm on the subject of money in our school districts, I have a great concern about our sport.Everone knows, many of our school districts are facing some big cuts in their budgets. Some schools are already talking about cutting some sports and activities.
I like to watch the big tournaments during the year as much as anyone and I enjoy watching stud A wrestle stud B. My concern is if we continue to only wrestle tournaments and forget home duals, how do wrestling programs make money beside hosting a big tournament? We need to keep in mind, basketball has anywhere from 8 to 12 home events while wrestling has only a few. My concern is when administrators and school boards start looking at programs to cut, wrestling may be at the front of the line for some districts. Many people in a community do not travel to watch wrestling like some of us old die hards. I'm afraid if we never wrestle at home, the community will not stand behind wrestling if a school board wants to cut a sport. I watched it happen in our colleges and I hope it doesn't happen to our high schools.

I would love to see a Grand State tournament, and would like to offer USA Wrestling-Kansas’ support such a venture. However, I don't believe that current KSHSAA rules would allow the schools or their coaches to participate in such an event. KSHSAA regulations prohibit schools from participating in All-Star competitions. This prohibition extends to directly or indirectly furnishing school facilities or equipment, coaching or promotion of the event. An All-Star team is defined as any team made up of athletes from different schools who are selected to participate in a specific contest on the basis of their athletic prowess.

The Executive Board of KSHSAA has the authority to grant an exception to this rule, but I don't believe they are inclined to do so. If you would like to see a Grand State, the place to start is with your school's administration. Only if enough administrators support the concept is KSHSAA likely to approve. We could hold the tournament without KSHSAA's blessing, but without school equipment, coaches or support, it would be a doomed venture from the start.

What do they call the shrine bowl, east/west classic or metro classic.

jrob1982,

The events you listed are limited to seniors only. Because their high school careers are completed in that sport, they don't have the same restrictions.

I was referring to the attendance record at an NCAA event. Over 16,000 fans attended the Minnesota vs. Iowa Dual, clearly showing that wrestling can be a very popular sport if the athletes can make it exciting and drive people to come and see it.

Travis:

Just to clarify; the record you speak of was for a college DUAL meet. The overall single session wrestling record was over 21,000 at the NCAA tournament at the UNI-Dome at the University of Northern Iowa in 1997. But either way, you're right -- if the event is big enough and the fans are loyal enough, they'll show up. We just have to give them a show!

Thanks, basically wrestling is the most exciting sport their is in my eyes. If it can be marketed to over 15,000 individuals for one meet think of the revenue it can bring in. Just look at the state tournament every year there has to be at least 5,000 people in attendance. If fans actually came to see wrestling, not just their sons, then a grand state tournament could not only show whom the actual best in state was, but could actually bring in some revenue for the KSHSAA. As mentioned before just develop more regional tournaments and have one state tournament . California does this and their state champions are actual state champions there would be no chance of if 5A met 4a or 6A met 321A It would be the best in the state and Kansas has 1/20th of the population of California. This is just my two cents, but ultimately it depends on what the public wants because sport at any level is dictated by the revenue that the sport generates. I know I would watch either or because for me high school wrestling is where you see sport at its most purest where the athletes actually get excited about winning. If you ask many olympians their most greatest feeling they ever had it would be winning a high school state tournament, I know it was for me. If people can feed off that energy then wrestling could be popular to the masses.

As a charter participant in the first Grand State

As I was saying I was a participant in the first Grand State in Kansas. It gives a wrestler in their weight class the chance to redeem themselves. I took 4th at State and had too wrestle a guy who took 1st my first match. I was able to win and beat another that took 3rd in his class. What I'm trying to say is when I went it was to show myself and others that I was better than my finish at State. So yes I think That we should find a way to to have another Grand State

Who wrestles in Grand State? Seniors only? State champs only? How does one qualify?

All state placers in all classes :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Although it would be nice to see a KSHSAA backed event, ... I am doubtful that it would happen. I still think that our best option for this to happen is for a facility such as Salina Bicentennial Center which is not affiliated with any high school to hold the event sponsored by an independent group or USA Kansas. Lets start seeing some feedback as to suggestions of others. As Rick Bowden had stated thier would be some obvious & large hurdles to overcome for the High School Activities Association to do the Grand State again. There has to be someone out there who sees the possibilities for an event of this quality & magnitude. We have one of the largest grass roots (kids clubs involvement) in our nation with some of if not the most dedicated die hard fans there are, who are willing to travel at 5AM each weekend & spend all day to witness their youths competing in this wonderful sport that is often new to them but soon gets in your blood. The sport was not as huge for us Kansans back in the 70s as it is now. Lets give our fans the best amateurs we have to offer & show them what we've become. There used to be a legitimate argument as to the surrounding states being superior to us but I think we've arrived as evident of the successes we are seeing on the next level. Why should we fear Mighty MO in the Metro Classic when we ourselves are no one to take lightly as we showed last year. As for the Grand State.... BUILD IT & THEY WILL COME !!!!! What do we all think ?? :rolleyes:

My question is, why did the KWCA make a proposal on a Dual State tournament over a Grand State. There are only a handful of teams who really care about the difference the scoring would be if they dualed a team or were in a tournament with a team. Everyone knows people would be much more excited about seeing the individuals get a shot a proving they were the best in the state rather than seeing wich team would score the most dual points against other teams in their class. Did the KWCA ask the high school coaches and the high school athletes what they wanted? I garantee if you sent a petition to every wrestling program in the state asking for their opinion they would be more in favor of a Grand State, not a Dual State. With all the schools response we could approve a Grand State.

Good Question??? Big Pin ! I agree, the dual State proposal I think would better serve the egos of a few particular coaches where as a Grand State would involve competitors & fans from all areas of the State & I feel would undoubtedly provide better individual match-ups & be a huge draw.
Kevin

Some background info. on the Dual State proposal FYI:

The proposal was the result of extensive polling of all coaches in Kansas over the course of the last two years. Several proposals were presented in a variety of methods, mailings, surveys, meetings, etc. After numerous hours of meeting and discussions, the current Dual State proposal was formulated. To explain all of the details, reasons, rationale, etc. would take a very long time. Every area of the state has been represented at these meetings, and youth to collegiate coaches were involved also.

In regards to the Dual State vs. Grand State issue, one of the many reasons behind choosing to push for a Dual State is that it recognizes and involves more kids and more programs, whereas a Grand State only recognizes the few individuals who already recieve much recognition for their accomplishments, and rightfully so. But I think the many educators involved in the development of this proposal liked the idea of involving more kids in the excitement of a state-level competition, not less kids. We felt the fans would be enthusiastic about and be entertained by either competition, but more would benefit from a Dual State (more teams involved).

Also, the fact that a Grand State was already attempted and dropped, we felt perhaps a Dual State had a better opportunity for success. Research by Doug Moore (Concordia) told us that 21 states have a Dual State tournament and in their survey responses every one had very positive comments and feelings about that event. They said it was by far one of the most exciting events of their seasons. They also said it was fan and media friendly, and was a financial success.

Wrestling is unique in that we compete in two different formats with potentially very different results, Team A can defeat Team B in a tournament but Team B would win in a dual format. A Dual State would reward programs for dual success even though they may not have the team makeup to finish as high in a tournament format.

I personally recall mailing and posting on the KWCA and USAW-KS sites the meeting times, sites, etc., inviting all coaches to participate and provide input on the issue. These meetings have been held in Chanute, Topeka, Hays, Salina, and at numerous regional/state meetings held over the last two years. The summer meetings attracted over 60 coaches combined at two meeting sites: Chanute and Topeka. The input received from these discussions have probably been about 99% positive to approximately 1% negative so far. I also requested feedback, ideas, suggestions, etc., from anyone in the Kansas wrestling community. . .the ideas presented in each email, phone call, etc., were all taken to these meetings to share and discuss.

The KWCA has always acted on behalf of the coaches and kids it serves. This year at the 3-1A State Tourney coaches meeting, the question was asked whether or not to continue pushing for a Dual State Tournament, the result was 58-0 in favor. In 4A, 5A, and 6A coaches packets, the same question was asked. Two "no" votes and over 50 "yes" votes were submitted.

The KWCA will continue to provide its work on behalf of the coach's wishes, if this is for or against a Dual State, then that is the direction the KWCA will act. Currently, the overwhelming majority has expressed support for the possible addition of a Dual State tournament. It may pass, it may not, but at this point the KWCA is attempting to accomplish what the KS coaches have requested.

I just wanted to share some helpful information on this topic. Please feel free to email, call, etc., as all input is valued in our continued push as to what is best for the kids involved in wrestling in our state.

Sincerely,
Kit Harris, Baldwin HS
KWCA member
kharris@usd348.com