I realize that KS wrestling intelligentsia already knows everything, won't change and can't learn from what happened in St. Louis. But wrestlers, you don't have to scratch too deeply to find common ground among Johnston, Bunch and Roberson from the previous year.
The common ground is Coach Kevin Klemm. Klemm developed these guys in HS by teaching them to wrestle on their feet in the Spring and Summer. He never taught them to ride and they couldn't use his trapped arm gut at NCAAs. Don't forget about other Klemm students who are coming down the road McCormick, Gardner, Dyer and others. The guy's results speak volumes but Klemm was often dissed by KS's wrestling "thought leaders" around the state who don't get it. Incredibly, he was left off several KS state freestyle teams. Klemm left us for Stanford. Hopefully Aiken and others will pick up where he left off, but make no mistake that Klemm is the common thread among today's KS elite wrestlers and not Nigel, sptsfan02, Jilka, Kanwrmn, Thayer, etc. Klemm taught wrestling like I've been telling you it ought to be taught in KS. Get away from those who espouse that "wrist and ride em" style if you want to be successful at the next level. Riding is a plus, but KS coaches teach it at the expense of teaching you how to compete on your feet. And, the officials are their accomplices by not calling stalling on the top man.

"Those who can't be taken down and can't be rode can't be beat."

I have to agree, somewhat, with what gutwrench is saying. I too, in my reports on the Metro claimed that loosing Kevin Klemm was a big blow to Kansas wrestling as a whole and specifically to the Metro area.

Perhaps, the Paola club and Russ Hermreck is picking up the slack a bit. Also, having Akin back around has surely got to be a plus.

Kevin's style was definitely and in-your-face, move the head with heavy hands, and controlling your opponents from the neutral position.

I've read gutwrenchs posts, claiming a weakness in the Kansas style. I have to agree! While college level coaches look for riding skills they also look for wrestlers who are dominant on their feet. I don't see many elite wrestlers being ridden nor for that matter taken down. But if I had to emphasize one skill, as if I am one to have much credit in my opionon, it would be strengthening our wrestlers on their feet.

Any how, that's my 2 cents worth!

I do believe Kevin has been a loss to the Metro Area wrestling. But do not under-estimate the importance of riding time at the college level. I was just skimming some of the notes from this years NCAA I semi-finals. Bunch over Reiter 1:58 riding time 6-4 final score (that is a taken down cushion in case of over time). Gallick over Simmons 2 minutes riding time 2-0 final score. Rosholt over Padden 10-9 with 1:11 riding time - that was the difference in the match. Riding time determines more matches than you think with some of the top guys. I am sure the guys at Stanford are well aware of the significance of riding time. In close matches there are a few reasons to ride an opponent. One is the obvious to score back points and the second is the riding time advantage - 1 point in college. For most collegiate wrestlers they may be warned for stalling quicker on top than the bottom guy who is trying to escape. Also the most energy is used by the top man when trying to hold down an escape artist. That is the give him 1 not 2 points Theory. A lot of those wrestlers/riders will look to score feet to back points when the man stands up - rather than trying to turn the opponent on the mat. When they are both on their feet you can see who is the more aggressive wrestler - in most cases. The wrestler who goes out of bounds with their back facing out gets the warning the majority of time. My point is - if you have a complete wrestler - college coaches will notice them. A college recruiter would want a take down, escape, and pinner/rider wrestler first. If that recruiter's other choice was just a take down and escape guy he would be second you can be sure of that. Just my two cents.

I just like the word intellegentsia.

Gutwrench,

I think you're missing the mark (again). Coach Klemm is a outstanding coach and has worked dilligently in the Metro. Yet I can never remember him getting "dissed" by the wrestling community. Please provide specifics. In fact, I've seen many complements towards him because of his athlete's attack on their feet. They do it quite well.

Since I don't know coach Klemm on a personal level, I can only comment on what I saw. Since you know him, please provide generalities on how he was dissed by Kansas. No need to bring up names.

Second, Klemm is not the only coach producing D1 calliber athletes. Coach Knox has produced some exceptional wrestlers in Wichita. His team has a long list of All Americans.

And what about Gable out west. His son was an Ok.St. wrestler. And lets not forget Colby. Looks like they got some pretty good kids there too.

I would even throw the Sunflower Gold club in the mix. It's a young club, but has a few All-Americans in the room.

And why did you leave off Roberson? National Champ last year at Iowa St. And Zach Allen? Wrestled Roberson in the finals of the Juniors when they were seniors. And that's just the tip of the iceberg! Heck kids from as far away as Columbus, like Devoe, would travel up to work out with him.

For a know-it-all, you sure don't know much.

Did Kansas lose a great coach - yep. Does that mean the end of the world? Nope. Are Kansas kids competing well in all levels of collegiate athletics? Sure are. Are you an idiot? I'd rather not comment because I might get banned.

Bunch won his first match at the NCAA's on RIDING TIME 9-8 OVER Mark Moos from Michigan. That is what I was told. I could not actually find the play by play. But a reliable source who went to St Louis provided that info at practice tonight.

Gutwrench,
You seemed to have changed tactics here. Since the numbers don't back up your claim that Kansas's wrestling style (what ever that is)is inferior, you instead try to shift the praise elsewhere instead of crediting the Kansas Wrestling Community for doing a good job.

I agree that Coach Klemm is a great coach, was a great asset to the Metro area, and helped develop some of the wrestlers you have mentioned. However, to imply that he is the only reason Kansas ranks well ahead of most states in D1 qualifiers based on population is ridiculous. What about Scott Coleman (2x All American) who did not train with Coach Klemm? Matt Murray, runner-up last year who did not train with Coach Klemm? Did Jake Kreigbaum train with Coach Klemm? Earl Jones (2x JuCo champ)? Eric Leudke (JuCo Champ)? What will you attribute their success to?

I do not dispute the fact that wrestling from the Neutral position is important but so is wrestling on the mat (both top and bottom).

Gutwrench I have several questions for you:
*How do you know what is taught in the practice rooms in this state?
*How many practice rooms have you been in?
*How many hours of preparation do you do to get ready for a season?
*How many hours do you stay up at night trying to think of new ways to get the most out of your athletes, most of whom are no where near D1 caliber wrestlers?

I do not know what you hope to accomplish through your incessant ranting about Kansas wrestling, but I can gaurantee you one thing, unless you become an actual participant (i.e. coach or official) you will never see the changes you would like.

I don't know how much riding time Bunch had on the Moos and i didn't see the match between Bunch and Moos but i know that Moos is a groofy wrestler and probably scored most of his points on the mat with reversals etc., which racks up riding time because they take a long time to get. Bunch, strength is on his feet and he probably took him down rode him for about 20-30 seconds and the Moos probably got a reveral and then Bunch quickly got to his feet so Moos couldn't get much of that riding time back. The more take downs or points scored the more riding time. It only takes a minute.

Obvious that Klemm was done a great job for kansas wrestling. Just look at the result. Two Divison 1 finalist, not juco champs or division II all americans or whatever. These wrestlers got it done in the highest level of colligate wrestling. Riding is important but I love watching Joe Johnson beat the crap of talented "riders".

The real message here is that there are great coaches that kids from all over the state will seek out-Kevin Klemm was one of them. Parents would drive from all over the state for his practices and just like a good coach he let each kid use their talent-whether a pin artist, takedown guy, rider etc... to develope their natural talents.
Other great programs and coaches are doing the same thing, look at STA, Paola, Eric Akin, Bob Gonzales, etc... these programs are now the ones that parents drive their kids all over to seek out great coaches and a great wrestling room

This is one of the biggest problems. In 1980 152 Division I schools had wrestling in 2002 there were 86. 1,520 scholarships vs 860 scholarships.
Divison II and Divison III also lost programs. More kids are forced to walk on and earn a scholarship the hard way. I am not positive but I would think the numbers are similar in Junior colleges, NAIA, and all levels post High School.

1979-80 - 152 Div. I; 72 Div. II; 150 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 374
1980-81 - 150 Div. I; 74 Div. II; 148 Div. III, total NCAA schools- 372
1981-82 - 146 Div. I; 68 Div. II; 149 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 363
1982-83 - 136 Div. I; 69 Div. II; 146 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 351
1983-84 - 136 Div. I; 62 Div. II; 144 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 342
1984-85 - 136 Div. I; 52 Div. II; 137 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 325
1985-86 - 133 Div. I; 51 Div. II; 133 Div. III, total NCAA schools- 317
1986-87 - 124 Div. I; 46 Div. II; 130 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 300
1987-88 - 121 Div. I; 41 Div. II; 127 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 289
1988-89 - 117 Div. I; 43 Div. II; 126 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 286
1989-90 - 112 Div. I; 44 Div. II; 122 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 278
1990-91 - 111 Div. I; 49 Div. II; 120 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 280
1991-92 - 110 Div. I; 48 Div. II; 117 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 275
1992-93 - 108 Div. I; 44 Div. II; 113 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 265
1993-94 - 107 Div. I; 49 Div. II; 108 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 264
1994-95 - 104 Div. I; 46 Div. II; 111 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 261
1995-96 - 98 Div. I; 48 Div. II; 112 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 258
1996-97 - 96 Div. I; 48 Div. II; 107 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 251
1997-98 - 96 Div. I; 42 Div. II; 101 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 239
1998-99- 94 Div. I; 43 Div. II; 101 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 243
1999-00 - 91 Div. I; 41 Div. II; 106 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 238
2000-01 - 90 Div. I; 41 Div. II; 104 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 235
2001-02 - 86 Div. I; 43 Div. II; 100 Div. III, total NCAA schools - 229

I would like to think that everyone could grasp the significanse of a DI one champ and two finalists from the same East Kansas wrestling club in two years, but amazingly enough some of you aren't even that smart. Only Blair Academy has done as well as East Kansas.

The emphasis you want to give to riding is out of whack with where winning wrestling has headed. Neutral is by far KS wrestling's weakest position because of commonly held beliefs like the ones above. Smokey equates neutral with the top position says they're all equally important. Twink insults us all by comparing NCAA DI finalists and a national champ with JUCO champs. Then he says Sunflower Gold, STA and Paola are adequate substitutes to Klemm's East Kansas Club. As a coach, if you can't distinguish between what's most important then you can't decide where to spend your practice time. The three positions in wrestling need to be taught but neutral is the deciding factor and deserves 75% of your practice time.

Right at 76% of the NCAA finals happened from the neutral position. I taped it and timed it. A riding point is established with only 1 minute or 14% of the total match time. Score three takedowns and ride your spiral for 20 secs each, get away fast and you've got your riding time.

Twink, who are the AAs at SunFlower Gold? You're cracking me up. As far as my credentials go, I'll say this much. I've paid my dues and got more than my fair share of acclaim as a coach and wrestler.

Correction---Twink and Gibby should be addressed in that final paragraph above.

DRAW A LINE WITH I-10 AND 1-135(kinda 1-35)GO'S FROME OKC TO CONCORDIA. SOMEONE FIGURE HOW MANY COLLEGE ALL-A CAME FROM EACH SECTION. AND THEN MATCH THAT FIGURE WITH POPULATION.

SORRY I MEANT I-70

Gut,

First reveal your name so that everyone here might lend some weight to what you say. As of right now you are nothing more than internet jockey rallying for things that just aren't going to happen. Secondly start your own wrestling club and teach kids the principals that you've been ranting on now for so long. Then we shall all see 1. How long will they last 2. How well will they fare during the season 3. Where do they choose to go to post secondary school. Until you start actively doing the things you are preaching about, I don't think too many people are going to lend weight to what you say.

Just as a matter of opinion I do think that SOME of the things you say are true, and I personally would like to see a lot less riding happen, however that is not to say that riding isn't an invaluable tool is very close matches.

Setting the record straight.....

As an individual affiliated with Sunflower Gold, I know some of their history. As you will read from my initial post, I said that it a young club - both in age and in years around. At one time it was a club but died out. A few wrestling individuals chose to take the club back and bring freestyle/greco to Topeka.

Sunflower Gold will take no credit for "producing All Americans," the kids were good when they walked in.

In the college ranks, Darion Terry of Mo Valley just placed again to be a 3X AA. Darion wrestled with the club and still comes in after returning from college to help and work out.

Last year, as a sophomore, Larry Perez placed 2nd in Greco and didn't wrestle Freestyle due to Vertigo. He's also a 2X state champ and ranked nationally.

At the kids ranks, freshman Colin Hase, 2nd in state @ 103 in 321A has placed nationally. Chris Strimple has as well.

Jesse Hardy out of Lawrence hasn't done too bad for himself either. I'm expecting big things for him.

And I can't leave out Zach Reeb. He has busted out as an excellent athlete in the past couple of years. Tough break a few weeks ago (wrist), but is on his way to being not just a state elite, but national elite as well.

We've got a few college wrestlers under our young belts down at Labette. National Champs and my alma mater! None broke varsity or were AA's but stuck out the season. I'm impressed because it's tough going from top dog to runt of the litter.

We have others that have made oral commitments to the club, but until the first day, I'll not comment.

Gutwrench, when your done swinging from the success of someone else and harping about what's missing, I'd like to see you in the room.

Some people like to complain, others get off their duffs and do something about it. There's an exciting change in philosophy in wrestling at the club - much of what you've said has been a focal point of the coaching strategy for the Olympic Styles at SG. We just chose to fix our deficienies rather than rant on the board about this and that.

SG athletes - am I forgetting some AA's or successful wrestlers?

Who the heck is gutwrench?

gutstench

First: East Kansas Kids Club doesn’t compare to Blair Academy, Walsh Jesuit, or any of the other elite wrestling programs across the nation. True, there have been some good wrestlers that came out of the East Kansas program, but not on a scale to compare to the elite. You obviously don’t know squat about wrestling! I saw your earlier post on here about Kansas coaches and just when I thought you couldn’t be more of an idiot you go and post this article. I went ahead and added the web site for Blair Academy and Walsh Jesuit just so people will understand that you don’t know what your talking about. The statistics of East Kansas Wrestling Club don’t even come close to the two that I have provided.

Blair Academy
http://www.blair.edu/Athletics/Wrestling/_site/archives/postacc.htm
Walsh Jesuit
http://www.walshjesuit.onlinecommunity.com/cgi-any/newspages.dll/teasers?sitena

I’ve known Kevin Klemm for about twenty years and Kevin knows wrestling, but I wouldn’t put him above a Wayne Jackson, Larry Gable, or a Rocky Weldon. East Kansas did a great job recruiting kids that were already good athletes/wrestlers to join their club, they did not create them. Division I athletes are born with God given talents and no one can develop something like this if isn’t already there. I also know some kids that were a part of that program (East Kansas) that were brought in for nothing more than throwing dummies for the better athletes.

If Kevin Klemm was such an extraordinary coach why wasn’t he hired by a topnotch program such as OSU, Iowa, Minnesota, or Iowa State, instead of Stanford? Stanford finished 37th in the NCAA Tournament, and had a 5-7-1 dual record against a weaker schedule. And why didn’t this program do better with Klemm on the staff? Klemm is a good kids club coach and nothing more.

I’m not bashing Kevin, but he is not the end to Kansas wrestling. Your opinion of East Kansas Wrestling Club and Kevin Klemm are bias and you haven’t supported your forum post.

Gibby, those guys aren't DI AAs. Enough already from you and the Sunflower Gold. They're not EKWC in its hey day. Rizo, look at the Blair site again. It proves my pont. NCAA finalists for East Kansas are Bunch, Johnston and Roberson in the past two years. Blair had Esposito and Mocco. And, youdon't think Blair recruits? What's wrong with the comparison and what do you have against Klemm? "He didn't develop but recruited good kids" and "he's nothing but a good kids club coach" and "he went to lowly Stanford". Not to diss him but you did, big time and you should apologize for being a smuck. I guess you forgot that Stanford had their first national champ last year and the Schultz connection. By the way, help me out with all the DI finalists and champs coached by Weldon, Jackson and Gable?

Pretty soon I'm going to reveal who I am and make you feel like idiots.

Gutwrench
I did not insult anyone, but only pointed out the fact that we have wrestlers acheiving at extremely high levels in wrestling, that had no affiliation with the East Kansas Club. I also did not establish credentials of any other club, that was done by others.

You however did not answer any of my questions:

*How do you know what is taught in the practice rooms in this state?
*How many practice rooms have you been in?
*How many hours of preparation do you do to get ready for a season?
*How many hours do you stay up at night trying to think of new ways to get the most out of your athletes, most of whom are no where near D1 caliber wrestlers?

Gutwrench: go ahead and wow us with your identity and accomplishments. I know that I won't feel like an idiot, regardless of who you are.