I can't wait until the east/west match where tj stabb will show that he is by far the best 215 pounder in the state, seiler is second but 215 was alot weaker this year then it has been in the past years so thats not saying much. why would I say 215 is weak this year? because 321a is missing clouse, 4a is missing speer, 5a is missing lattimer and 6a wasn't a very strong class to begin with becuase caroll has never been on the same level as lattimer or speer if he was in 4a or 5a when he was a junior he would have placed maybe 6th in either class.

I think someone forgot to tell Seiler that he was supposed to lose last night. I think we should start right now with the excuses why Staab lost.

So your saying that since three kids graduated in 5, 4 and 321a 215 is weak? I don't think so, if that is all it takes for a weight to be weak, then I say it was weak to begin with. I also think its funny that you say Carroll is not on the same level as Lattimer and Speer since Carroll is nationally ranked. He lost this year once to Bork and once to Hemmerling. That would put those two a step up from Carroll. Seiler beat Hemmerling, which would put him two steps up from Carroll. Staab looked good too, just not good enough to beat Seiler. I say those 5 kids right there, according to your non-weak weight criteria, are enough to make 215 a very tough weight.

I also think 215 is weak this year, not only did the 3 most dominant wrestlers graduate but in 6a 5a and 4a like 5 or the 6 placers graduated, I would also like to say anyone who thinks that josh caroll could compete with speer or lattimer is a joke, caroll couldn't even compete with seiler if they wrestled and if I remember correctly seiler lose many times to some of the seniors last year and couldn't even score a take down on lattimer, a person who could not take lattimer down being the best 215 pounder in the state along with most of the placers graduating would make some of us think that 215 is weak this year, and don't even make me mention tad greer.

But you did just mention Tad Greer and no one made you do it. I don't know who Seiler's losses were to last year except for Lattimer in the finals at state. All I know is that he didn't lost many times to anyone. Did Seiler beat you last year, is that why you're so angry with him. Is there a little child inside that is crying to get out. They have counselors for people who need help, all you have to do is ask.

Actually me and seiler are cool I was pulling for him the whole year, I just used him as an example because he is the beat 215 pounder in the state and he wasn't close last year.

I would think that two points in the state finals would qualify as a little better than not close. That's just me though. Also, hope you took that whole child needing help thing as the joke it was meant to be (sounded like you did, just wanted to make sure).

Hey Crowley did you wrestle Charles Chainey from Wyandotte in the state finals one year? I was just wondering how that went?

Hey stiknmove, just to answer your question, yes seiler beat Roberson last year. Actually i don't know that beating him would describe it well enough. Seiler was dominating Roberson and then STUCK him at the Newton tournament. Roberson went on to get a wopping 6th place at state his senior year. Now to me this sounds like a guy that has a whole lot of room to talk about the good ole days of high school wrestling. Get a life. You were never that good, so quit trying to bash on everyone that is. And another thing for everyone who talks trash on Seiler, particularly ssss and Jalon "MY MOUTH WON'T SHUT" Crowley. After three years of wrestling Seiler has beaten everyone that has stepped in front of him. Other than escapes, NOBODY HAS SCORED A POINT ON HIM. Can you say that about yourself Crowley? But i guess that it doesn't count because the quality of wrestling is down so much from when you were there. But anyway, grow up, get a life and remember, you aren't in high school anymore.

To RW, just a little info, Crowley never wrestled Chaney from Wyandotte, that was Bailey from Ark City. So get it straight before you try to talk trash.

Wouldnt have mattered. Thanks for setting me straight that is why I ask the question. Now that you have straightened me out I will know better than to ask questions of experts such as yourself. I live to serve you master..

First of all I wasn't saying i was the best at anything and I wasn't takin shots at seiler I like seiler hes a pretty cool kid, I was simply using him as a measuring stick to rate the other wrsetlers because he is this years best, plus I never got dominated by anyone, the only reason that I do talk on these forums is that I am a fan of wrestling and I only wrestled for 2 years and didn't get as much out of it as I would have liked, so it would only be logical that I keep up with wrestling news.

Now before we all go kicking eachother in the stuff men are made of, lets all remember that these forums are meant to bring wrestling fans from all over to a place where they can openly express their OPINIONS of the sport. I don't condone the slander of any individuals, programs, classifications, endangered species, etc. That being said, I like a little trash talking just as much as the next person that gets on here and spouts off about how great they coulda been if the earth revolved on a secondary axis blah, blah, blah. So let the eye gouging, oil checking, finger biting continue!!

No problem, I just hate it when smart*ss's such as yourself get on here and think they know what they're talking about, without knowing the facts.

Seiler is better than he gets credit for, and I think people are starting to figure that out. I have seen most of Seiler's career and I'm not sure it is physically possible to work harder than him. He has improved increadibly fast. Blake still has not been taken down, reversed, or put to his back this year. Anyway you say it, that is impressive.

I think Josh Carroll is the best 215 this year, yeah I know he didn't win state, I know he lost to Bork,(If you saw the match,you know Carroll should of won, bad ref.)Carroll would have won state, if his elbow was healthy, his elbow injury was a horrible injury, it required surgery, and almost a year of rehab. Carroll decided not to have surgery, because it would put him out an entire year, He is All-State in three sports. Because of weights like 215, Kansas needs to bring back Grand-State.

Jbwrestler, was that comment directed at me? I'm not sure which facts I don't know about? I have never claimed to know all of the facts, but I think that I do know enough about the sport to make the comments that I have made, if you disagree with that, I'm sorry. I'm sure you'll get over it eventually.

stiknmove, no it wasn't directed to you, it was towards RW, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quite a lot of hostility here I think. Do you get a prize if you know the most? I would be out if that was the case. I hope you don't have to qualify to be on this board. JB you might be the only one smart enough to be here.

Mr. Westfahl, I have had a lot of respect for the different posts that you have made. This last post you made, though has made me rethink this. I have yet to read a post that states "I know all there is to know about the sport of wrestling." I would think that it would be understood that there is no one on here that could say that. There are a lot of strong opinions on here and there are a lot of these opinions that vary. I think a heated discussion about these differences is not too far out of the norm. I don't agree with insulting the other people on this forum or degrading other wrestler's, which is exactly what you have done here. How do you feel knowing that you have just told a lot of high school aged kids that they are not smart enough to post about a sport that they participate in and are very passionate about? Sleep well!