I have heard of many instances where a coach has not released a wrestler who has exchanged schools at the high school level. I can't fathom in my wildest dreams ever telling a kid (no matter how big a jerk or pain they are), that they are not going to get the chance to compete this year.

I have also seen parents from schools go to KSHAA wanting other kids to have to sit out a semester b/c they left their team. In a sport that seems to be dying at all levels, why would a person want to keep another individual from competing. I believe these people are low lives among the sport. Why take away the work of the people who have worked so hard to save wrestling.

I can understand this at the college level. I don't agree, but I can understand b/c money is involved at a higher level and if a wrestler bails out and leaves a coach without a wrestler at the last minute, then I could see his reason behind it. However, keeping someone from competing in the sport is wrong in my eyes, and as a coach now, if a wrestler ever wants a transfer release, I'll sign it without hesitation. If they don't want to be in my program, I am not going to force them to.

Am I wrong?

I always thought that it was a mandatory semester of inelgibility when transferring from one school to another. I may be wrong. Exception, of course, when your primary residence moves from one district to the next. I did not realize that it required a coach to approve of a transfer. I have always assumed that this is stricty a KSHSAA matter.

You may transfer schools and be eligible without a move if the coach from the previous school signs a release. Otherwise a wrestler must sit out 18 weeks befor he/she is eligible.

Really.....?.....that's new to me.

Don't tell any of my athletes about that.

I think this rule varies from state to state and was put in place in Kansas to prevent one public high school from recruiting athletes from other public high schools. I do not know anything about how hardships granted by the KSHSAA or releases work though. I do think the reason behind the rule has some merit, but I also hate to think that kids who want to wrestle are not getting the opportunity because of it.

I went to school in oklahoma and they also have this rule. The main reason is keep coaches from recruiting. its not the greatest rule, but I can understand why it exist. BTW that was in 1990 and they are still very strict about enforcing it.

I have copied the following from KSHSAA Eligibility/Transfer forms. There are three (3) possible applications, an immediate eligibility based on a bona fide move, partial eligibility when there has been no bona fide move, and a hardship provision.

According to Gary Musselman, KSHSAA Executive Director, there is NO provision for a coach to provide a release for an athlete to transfer to a new school and become immediately eligible.

KANSAS STATE HIGH SCHOOL ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSFER

KSHSAA Transfer Rule 18-1-1 requires processing a Certificate of Transfer for all transfer students. Use this Form T-E (Transfer-Eligibility) for those students who, along with their parents, make a bona fide move to a new permanent residence in the vicinity of your school.

NOTE: In addition, the student must meet all other rules and regulations; such as Scholarship Rule 13, Bona Fide Rule 14, Enrollment Rule 15, Semester Rule 16, Age Rule 17, etc.

SECTION A of this form is to be completed by the petitioning school AND FAXed OR MAILED TO THE PRINCIPAL of the school from which the student transferred, requesting the required information in SECTION B. Enclose a stamped, self-addressed envelope with this form to expedite the “sending” school’s reply. If/when SECTION B is approved and returned to you, please retain it in your files.

Contact the KSHSAA only if the principal of the school the student last attended, or you, disagree concerning the student’s eligibility.

Transfer Rule 18-1-9, to which this form primarily applies reads as follows:

MOVE OF PARENTS TO NEW SCHOOL AREA—If a student’s parents move to the vicinity of a new school and the student elects to remain at the school in which he or she has been enrolled and attending, the student may do so without affecting his or her eligibility at that school. If the parents move during the school year and the student wishes to transfer to the school in the vicinity of the new permanent residence, he or she may become eligible immediately under the following conditions:

a. If the student transfers within ten days of the time of his or her parent’s move, the student becomes eligible at once as far as the Transfer Rule is concerned.

b. If the student remains until the close of the current semester or until the close of the school year, he or she may become eligible immediately upon enrolling in the new school and attending classes.

c. If the student transfers within ten days after the end of an activity season in which he or she competed and which was in progress at the time of the parents’ move, the student becomes eligible immediately. An activity season is interpreted as being “in progress” after a school has been represented in at least one interschool event in that activity.

NOTE: If a student does not transfer to the new school within the time span as explained above in a, b, c, the student will remain eligible at the original school but would be ineligible at the new school, unless otherwise approved by the school from which he or she transferred and the Executive Board.


KANSAS STATE HIGH SCHOOL ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSFER

POSSIBLE LIMITED ELIGIBILITY APPLICATION

KSHSAA Transfer Rule 18-1-1 requires processing a Certificate of Transfer for all transfer students. Use this Form T-E/P (Transfer-Eligibility/ Possible) for those American students who change schools without a move on the part of their parent(s) with whom they were residing when they attended their previous school. NOTE: In addition, the student must meet all other rules and regulations; such as Scholarship Rule 13, Bona Fide Rule 14, Enrollment Rule 15, Semester Rule 16, Age Rule 17, etc.

SECTION A of this form is to be completed by the petitioning school AND FAXed OR MAILED TO THE PRINCIPAL of the school from which the student transferred, requesting the required information in SECTION C. Enclose a stamped, self-addressed envelope with this form to expedite the “sending” school’s reply. If/when SECTION C is approved and returned to you, please send this form to the KSHSAA, PO Box 495, Topeka, KS 66601-0495, for approval consideration.

Transfer Rule 18-1-6, to which this form applies, reads as follows:

POSSIBLE LIMITED ELIGIBILITY—When a student transfers schools under circumstances which do not meet other terms of the Transfer Rule, he/she may be granted eligibility to participate in interscholastic activities as hereinafter restricted if the student qualifies under the following terms and conditions:

a. A student whose name was included on a school eligibility roster at any level (varsity, junior varsity, freshman, middle/junior high, etc.) for a given activity during the twelve calendar months preceding the date of such transfer can be eligible only for non-varsity competition in that activity.

b. A student may have unrestricted eligibility in all other activities in which his/her name has not appeared on a school eligibility roster (at any level). Eligibility can be granted provided the activity eligibility is approved by the principals of both the sending and receiving schools and the KSHSAA Executive Board, and further, provided there is no activity purpose involved in the transfer. Approval must be granted on a special KSHSAA form (Form T-E/P).

c. The student shall be ineligible for all activities for eighteen school weeks from the date of transfer in the event either or both principals or the Executive Board declines to approve activity eligibility.

KANSAS STATE HIGH SCHOOL ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSFER

HARDSHIP EXCEPTION ELIGIBILITY APPLICATION

KSHSAA Transfer Rule 18-1-1 requires processing a Certificate of Transfer for all transfer students. Use this Form T-E/H (Transfer Eligibility/Hardship) for waiver of the Transfer Rule when hardships are involved. NOTE: In addition, the student must meet all other rules and regulations; such as Scholarship Rule 13, Bona Fide Rule 14, Enrollment Rule 15, Semester Rule 16, Age Rule 17, etc.

SECTION A of this form is to be completed by the petitioning school AND FAXed OR MAILED TO THE PRINCIPAL of the school from which the student transferred, requesting the required information in SECTION B. Enclose a stamped, self-addressed envelope with this form to expedite the “sending” school’s reply. If/when SECTION B is approved and returned to you, please send this form to the KSHSAA, PO Box 495, Topeka, KS 66601-0495 for approval consideration.

Transfer Rule 18-1-13, to which this form applies, reads as follows:

HARDSHIP—This rule applies only to transfer students who, because of unforeseen, unavoidable, or unusual circumstances; including but not limited to, broken home conditions, death of parents or guardian and abandonment, find it necessary to change schools.

a. The situation may be referred to the Executive Board for evaluation by completing Form T-E/H from the Entry Form & Supply Book.

b. The Executive Board may declare the student eligible, provided the change was necessary and there was no undue influence.

c. If the Executive Board declares the student eligible under the foregoing circumstances, he or she shall be eligible upon notification.

There is a very serious fight (or there was) at Michigan State on this issue with Coach Minkel not releasing one of his wrestlers (can't think of the name) but I think it was in bad taste as the kid had graduated and the college didn't offer what he was wanting to pursue for a masters. But then again, you can just walk away for a year an try to play catch up instead of all of the middle junk involved.

Sweazy-
His name is Nik Fekete or something of that nature. Coach Minkel is a huge SOB , but the kid tried wrestling for Hofstra after that too....id be pretty pissed if i was a coach and a kid did that to me.

i came from missouri, and my brothers were state placers and state champions. so my last name was known. we came from a horrible area in kansas city and a very crappy wrestling school. my brothers garduated, then i got into high school. i went to hickman mills my freshman year (the school in a bad area). we had owned a farm in Garnett KS for some time but never could get moved down there. at the end of my freshman year i got kicked out of school for 2 weeks , because i got into a fight. my mom was scared for me, so i moved in with my brother in Raymore missouri for a year. As some of you might know Ray-Pec is a well known wrestling school on missouri. My old coach at hickman mills reported to mshsaa that i had been recruted. whitch i had not. So MSHSAA made me uneligable for any sports for a year. i was only going to be at ray-pec for a year. The one thing that really got to me was that the person who i had beat all year, who was at the weight class i was going to be at.......he went on to win state. Dont get me wrong ....i was happy for him, but that should have definitly been mine.


Missouri has some really bad rules.
I remember the day that caoch barbarick pulled me in to his office and told me that i couldnt wrestle......... it is one of the worst feelings after you have wrestled ever since i was 4 years old.

Awww, come on now Mr. Church, what's the matter??? Did your new 19lber not pan out quite the way that you had hoped? And before you get started, this is in no way intended to make it sound like he was recruited away from Campus. I think that you are missing the big picture. The life of a high school student should not be governed by their ability, or lack there of, to compete in any sport or other activity. The purpose of high school is to provide a sound base for students to make a life for themselves after school. You being upset that a kid that transferred and is not eligible to wrestle really shows your true motivations. Instead of being happy that a kid is out of a bad situation at home or at school or in his grades or with the groups of people at his school, you are more concerned that the kid isn't able to help your program. Shouldn't you be more focused on being happy that his grades have improved, his self esteem has gone up, and his relationships with friends, family, teachers and administrators have improved? I know that wrestling means a whole lot to many people, but at some point someone should remind kids that wrestling is not the only thing in life. Yeah, he may not get a chance to compete the rest of this year, in reading Mr. Salyer's response, I would find it hard for him to qualify as a hardship case, but then you might want to look at the fact that maybe he shouldn't have left to begin with. Many parents disagree with coaches, but that shouldn't give them the right to pack up and leave. What kind of message does that send to the kid? "If you don't like your situation, you can always fix it by going somewhere else," instead of "Make the most of what you have, do what YOU can to improve YOUR own situation."

PULL MY FINGER! IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO TALK CRAP TO ME AND QUESTION MY INTENTIONS AS TO THE WELFARE OF MY ATHLETES IN REGARDS TO EDUCATION, WRESTLING, AND LIFE, THEN HAVE THE GUTS TO LET ME KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

ALL I WANT IS FOR EVERY ATHLETE TO HAVE EVERY AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPETE IN THIS SPORT. OUR SPORT IS A DYING SPORT IF YOU HAVENT ALREADY NOTICED. I THINK I SEEN A NUMBER AS HIGH AS 200 COLLEGES HAVE DROPPED WRESTLING IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. I LOVE THIS SPORT BUT I SEE THAT YOUR LOVE FOR IT IS BLURRED BY A VISION THAT AN ATHLETE SHOULD PAY A PRICE FOR CHANGING TEAMS OR SCHOOLS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT RECRUITING IS THE REASON FOR ALL OF THE RULES. I AM 100% AGAINST RECRUITING. WHY DON'T WE WORK ON ENABLING OUR ATHLETES TO COPETE INSTEAD OF DISABLING THEM OVER A RULE THAT HAS GREAT INTENTIONS, BUT DOES NOT LOOK AT THE ENTIRE PICTURE.

AS FOR ELLIOT, WE DON'T KNOW IF HE IS ELIGIBLE OR NOT. HE WEIGHED IN FOR US TODAY AND WE ARE WAITING FOR CAMPUS HIGH SCHOOL TO FAX US PAPERWORK SO WE CAN SEND IT TO THE STATE. HE MIGHT AND HE MIGHT NOT BE ELIGIBLE. BUT FOR YOU TO QUESTION ME IS OUTRAGEOUS AND TO SAY THAT MY TRUE INTENTIONS HAVE SHOWN. WELL YOU ARE RIGHT. I AM AN ADVOCATE AND YOU ARE A VIRUS FOR THE SPORT IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT EVEN IF ALL RULES HAVE BEEN FOLLOWED, (AND THERE IS NO SIGN OF RECRUITING) THAT A PERSON SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO COMPETE.

THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A WHILE!

Is it me or did Church change his post? I remember a reference to bouncing balls. Maybe it was baseballs? Some sort of balls. I also thought he said Elliot was eligible. I could just be getting old.

mchurch1,
I'm having difficulty understanding from your posts if you are for or against the current transfer rule. Could you please clarify for me your position? In my opinion, from reading what goes on in other states that do not have such a rule I would NEVER support it's elimination in Kansas.

I am against coaches not releasing kids to wrestle! I am also against recruiting and if recruiting becomes evident and can be proven, then the kid should be ineligible for lack of integrity on coach and athlete both.

And yes DB777, I did change my post. Due to a problem in administration of Elliots paperwork, he is not yet eligible. We found this out at 4:00 pm yesterday 12/29 (3 hours before the dual). Not going to comment on who and what the problem was though but to say that Elliot and us coaches did everything right. Only way I could do so. But Pull My Finger did have me pretty irritated yesterday.

mchurch1,
Of course recruiting is very hard if not impossible to prove. Unless the athlete is willing to give up the coach that recruited him (highly unlikely), I can see no way for it to be proven. Past cases of recruiting, as I recall, centered around private schools and the elimination of tuitions. From reading the KSHSAA regulations concerning hardship cases it appears there are means to bypass the administration from the former school (appeal to the board), in order to determine if the hardship is legit.

Yes, you are correct. I was just trying to make a point about letting kids wrestle. I just want all kids to compete if all rules are followed.

Last Post:

At the high school level, the coach has absolutely NO say in the matter. It matters not if the coach were to sign a release, if there has not been a bonafide move on the part of the student, with at least one (1) parent, the student is not eligible for one (1) semester, providing there are no hardship circumstances.

I believe there is some confusion on the subject matter regarding the differance(s) between high school and college.

Several years ago, there was an athlete who wrestled for Fort Hays State University, transferred schools, and had some difficulty obtaining a release from the coach/administration at Fort Hays State.

Elliots eligibility went through this morning. He will be competing for us Thursday.

Church

hahaha! You may not have known this, but the wrestler was me! I did lose a year of eligibilty when I transferred to Carson-Newman College in Tennessee. I was torn at the time, but as I look back, I can see where Coach Bickley was coming from. He is a good man and I put him in a rough spot early in his coaching tenure. In his mind I left him no time to find a replacement. I don't agree with it, but understand. Have a good one Richard

Dear Mike:

Yes, I knew who the wrestler was.

Inasmuch as the information was not public knowledge, I did not feel it was appropriate to identify the wrestler.

Congratulations to Tim!