I second the motion...

what if a great wrestler wrestles another great wrestler? Phil Hart (whom I consider a great wrestler) got absolutely hammered last year by some kid from MO. I think the final score was 11-2 or something like that. Does that discount the fact that he was the best 160 lb wrestler in Kansas, just because he lost by more than a takedown?

And yes, great wrestlers can go on slumps. What makes them great is the fact that they usually don't, but it is still possible. After all, a high school kid usually has more on his mind than just wrestling. I know that It was almost impossible for me to focus soley on wrestling, what with grades and girls and work and girls and other sports and girls. Although I was by no means a great wrestler, I think it is fair to assume that I was a typical high school student, and thus can assume that most other wrestlers had similar problems that I did.

Finally, I don't think any wrestler is ever really "overrated." The wonderful thing about the tournament format that we use it that the best wrestlers generally find a way to work their way to the top, and most intellegent people recognize this. If a wrestler were to be overrated, he would not stay that way very long because he would most likely lose. Eventally, wins and losses will show who the best wrestlers are, and there really is no need to claim that somebody is "overrated," or "underrated."

i don't believe that great wrestlers ever go into slumps i have known quite a few 4 time state champs and that is why they were 4 time state champs because they have that ability to block everything else out girl, grades,parents,noise,atmosphere,nerves, you to be a good wrestler you don't have to win 4 state titles or even 1 state title all though everyone wants to but when all you do is want, and not do anything about it, that is what makes a great wrestler to me. you can correct me if i am wrong.

thanks

You are right--you must have been the typical high school student who also happened to be on the wrestling team. But I can tell you this--no great wrestler ever goes into a slump (these kids do exist in high school). A slump is some sort of mental block where for some reason or another, you don't believe you can win. Yes, good wrestlers lose matches. Great wrestlers lose matches. But no great wrestler will ever let a "slump" of unexplainable consecutive losses happen.

I second that, Dingbat. I never went through a slump in high school. You probably didn't either, seeing as you didn't have to worry about concentrating on girls.

***Hey-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.***

Im glad you think im annoying but you don't really even know me so what would be the point of your comment? Its very easy to come on the forums and post stuff under fake names. I have and always will use my real name on here because im not afraid to accept the consquences of the things I say. I have been on this site far long than the both of you and one of the longest on this site. So if anyone should get their talking rights removed it would be you Mr. Cheese.

There is such thing as an overrated wrestler. Ill give a college example. Zach Espozito his freshmen yr at Oklahoma was one of the most touted freshmen in college wrestling. About a third through the season EVERYONE was saying how he was a phenom and how he would win the NCAA's or at least all-american. He was being compared to the greats such as Cael Sanderson, Dan Gable, John Smith, etc.... He was ranked in the top 3 in the nation for about half the yr also. Well the kid completely choked at nationals. He did not win a championship nor did he even place. That sir is being overrated. Being overrated is not living up to the hype and he is a good example of that.

Mr Rocknraider,

Perhaps you should try to wrestle at a D1 school and even win 1 match and then you would understand how easy it can be to lose 2 in a national championship tournament. Your example was very poor and somewhat disrespectful to someone whom you don't even know.

Zach Esposito wrestles for Oklahoma State University.

I don't see how people think I can be overrated. Write this down:
First of all, you have to be thought as good, to be overrated. Which of course, no one thinks I'm good. Second, I can eat more than you and I will eat anything, so that makes me a better person than you. Finally, I beat Prant in wrestle-offs, which makes me better than a super average wrestler. I'll settle with that.

You are correct, sir. You did beat me in wrestle offs, so that automatically makes you a superb wrestler. However, you must remember that I beat you in more wrestle offs, so that makes me

Super Average +1.

We are both pretty sweet.

Jacob Klein's freshman year at state is proof great wrestlers can have slumps. He beat the number one ranked kid the week before state at regionals, then doesn't place at state. And nobody in their right mind will argue that Klein isn't one of the best out of Kansas ever. There are a number of good/great wrestlers who've had slumps, and been beaten by more than a takedown. Michael Bradley beat Bunch most of the time they wrestled, but one year at state Bunch came out on top 13-3.

You are missing my point. Yes, Klein turned out to be a great wrestler. Was he great when he was a freshman? No. Otherwise he wouldn't have WD'ed at state. How many consecutive-loss slumps did he have after 9th grade?

ABARTELS:
Aaron, I read your post of 1/27 regarding 6A 135 last year in which you reference Chaz, along with Sultani & Patterson, and the fact that State didn't prove anything in that instance, let me just make some comments. No doubt that S.Hill was in a class by himself at that weight and he was probably going to win state unless something unforseen happened. So whoever drew that side of the bracket had a tough road. However, even though there is some dispute over how much the rankings mean, Chaz did have to knock off #5 and #2 to reach the finals. (that's how I remember the final rankings, could be wrong) Having watched Chaz wrestle all year I can tell you he probably wrestled two of his best matches of the year to beat those two guys. With regards to Patterson, Chaz had wrestled him twice and they split. With regards to Sultani, Chaz had been beaten by him 3 times during the year and I believe was totally pysched out against him, maybe because he was older, maybe because they wrestled together in the off season, I don't know. Sultani got beat later by Patterson in the consolation finals. My point is, who's to say how either of them would have done against Craig or Nelson. It's my understanding that Craig usually comes out on top against Patterson. I'm not taking anything away from Sultani or Patterson, they're both good wrestlers. My point is, you have to peak at the right time, in the big show, or nothing much else matters. Just look at the Chiefs! In contrast, with Chaz's older brother, he had to sit in the stands a couple of years ago and watch guys in the 5A & 6A finals who he had beaten during the year. So yes, a few breaks are nice but you have to step up at the right time. Hope to see you back soon.
Randy Hill(Dad/Coach)

RocknRaider,

My themat.com compadre, I know you meant to put Okie State....LOL, still making me chuckle though, everybody getting on you...lol.

Im not saying that chaz didn't deserve to get in the finals. i hope you didn't get that impression. I guess thats what makes the state tournment more exciting than any other tournment because you never know whos going to pop into the finals.

i soooo mean to put Okla state....

And yeah the state tourney is crazy, but in my opinion ali deserved to be in teh finals. Losing in the consolation finals probably doesnt help his cause about deserving to be in the state finals. Ali may have pinned chaz three times during the yr, chaz stepped it up and beat the guys he needed to beat.