I understand the concern of a ref who thinks he is looking at ringworm, afterall ringworm itself has almost shut the sport down numerous times. Also good health and hygene should be the #1 concern, but refs are not Dr's and I question if they really know what they are looking at 100% of the time. I don't think it helps the sport to just dq a kid if you dont really know for sure. What would it hurt for another opinion from another ref or better than that take that call away from the ref and let the via chrisiti people make that call or whoever the trainer is. Its a medical issue and your giving an awful lot of descresion to someone who really isn't an expert. Its a stuggle to get kids out to wrestle and I just think we can do better. I just think its a pretty serious call when a call like that can determine the outcome of an event. When you see things like this and you here young kids say what the hell did I work so hard for it makes you wonder. Who is really hurting this sport.

I am of the opinion that making a call about "what" a spot is, should not be our job, and in fact it is not. HOWEVER if a kid does have a questionable spot it is their responsibility to get a note from the doctor that qualifies. If they do not get a note, then they don't wrestle.

Nigel, I agree with you 100% on what should not be your job. I have read many of your responses and have great respect for your opinion even if you are from Manhattan. JK LOL Please read my entire post. I also agree if a kid has an iffy spot he needs to see a Dr. You drip hot cheese on your chest at 10 o'clock at nite and have a 6 a.m. weigh in your in trouble. All i'm saying is whats wrong with ref1 asking ref2 his opinion of a spot. 99.99% of the time ref2 is going to agree with ref1 but can we give benefit of doubt one more chance for the hard work and effort that theese young athletes go through. I'm only thinking of the mindset we create in an athlete as to whether all his hard work is paying off for him. Thank you for your response. I do respect it. We may not always agree BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE MUTUAL RESPECT. If you don't have an open ear to others AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS ABOUT YOU NIGEL, then you are for sure at the top of the hill and its a fast trip one direction. Everyone should have a voice to help the sport.

Why not take advantage of your EMT's (who are state certified to make medical decisions). They should be able to identify ringworm, and most tournaments take advantage of the free service to have them at their tournaments anyways.

What's a wrestler who has a 6:00 weigh in eating that late at night for?

The official who made the decision, prior to the start of the tournament, asked me if there was a physician in the gymnasium to confirm the diagnosis in an effort to eliminate any confusion!

I did go to several teams prior to the start of the tournament and inquire if any team had any participants whose parent was a physician in order to provide a proper diagnosis.

I was unable to find a physician on the premises to assist with the matter.

4 pounds under Curtis you animal. Not everyone slams 20 pounds a week. lol besides i know who cooked the hotpocket and i feel bad for the wrestler.

It sounds to me like the extra effort on the ref's behalf was attempted. I'm glad to hear that, and thanks Richard for trying. We was able to find a state sanctioned RN in the building, it was not ringworm, however at that time it was way to late. Its noones fault. Like I said seems like we could come up with a better way and also insure health and safety. I am in noway blaming the ref. After all its not their job to know what a spot is. As a wrestling community surely we can figure this out, its not like this is the first time it has ever been brought up.

Lol. I don't slam 20 pounds a week either, anymore at least. lol.

Let's get one thing straight:

Nigel is NOT from Manhattan. He doesn't want to be from there and we're certainly not welcoming him with open arms.

I'm glad we got this whole thing cleared up.

Wait a minute, im not from Manhattan, I just live here :p

Ringworm is a nasty thing that has been and probably always will be with the sport of wrestling. If a wrestler has any questionable markings on his/her body it is the responsibility of the wrestler/coach to provide documentation of the markings so situations like this do not occur. The rules are there to protect ALL wrestlers and the referees have that responsibility put upon them by the rules committee. I am sure they do not like to make that decision. If there is a questionable mark, it is better to be safe than sorry. The refs’ are only doing their job. If you want to take it out of his hands, get the note from the doctor.

Did you know that a ref can overturn a doctor's note? Weird.

Wow...in that case, since I have a kid whose dad is a doctor, can he over rule a call? Sounds fair to me! Personally, I think in that situation, an official who knew that the coach had integrity would be able to ask trust the coach on that deal. NO HONEST coach will put a kid on the mats right before regionals with a skin infection.

Sounds to me like the official wasn't real sure what it was and the kids coach explained to ref what it was. Nothing doin so Mr. Uncle Salyer :-)
went looking for a physician asking several other teams, BREAKING A SWEAT I'M SURE if their was parent or someone who was a physician. With no luck there the kid was dqued.Now what does that say about the relationship between this official and coach. They have known each other for some time. These petty type things need to come to an end. I can tell you right now that a coaches hands are tied and they can only do so much for an athlete. And you are right NO HONEST coach would put a kid on the matt with a skin infection AND AN HONEST REF wouldn't dq a kid unless he was ABSOLUTELY SURE he was doing the right thing.Its in the past now and I just think the wrestling comunity if allowed for their voices to be heard without theese people with god like powers shutting them down can do better for the sport and the athlete.

Whatever happened to taking someone for their word? I understand the refs' dilemma. I suppose the ref assumed the kid and coach were lying. The ref was wrong to do that but can feel okay about not taking chances with other kids who might lose an opportunity to compete next week in Regionals.

On the other hand, no kid eating hot pockets at 10pm should be allowed to wrestle anyway.

I was not going to get involved here due to the highly charged emotions involved, but I think that we are forgetting what this is all about-- the health of everyone that will be wresstlling after this young man on that mat, and on any other mat that someone who wrestled on that mat may have wrestled on, thereby transmitting the virus to it. Not too long ago a coach that knew his wrestler had herpes put him on the mat and now several other wrestlers that stepped up to that mat in good faith have that disorder-- for life. I think that whatever temporary honor the young man in question may have enjoyed had he been allowed to wrestle is eclipsed in its importance by the health of the other wrestlers involved.

mike fairleigh, Thanks for for your input for I know alot of people respect your opinion. Just a few things to think about,first this topic seems to have a civil tone to it and if you read it top to bottom really the underlying matter is are we doing the right thing for health and safety AND being fair to the wrestler. I don't think anyone is questioning the ref's opinion BUT is it fair to ask one person to make this call, when its not his responsibility to identify what a "spot"is especially not being an expert.
Otherwise you could call a pimple' spots, matt burn spots or numerous,numerous marks could be spots of concern. If you ask me I think that asking a ref to make that call is to much for the money they make. If a ref is asked to make health decisions he should receive the proper training and be paid accordingly. My own stepson had a spot on his face and I can usually tell you if it is ringworm or not. I asked him to ask his coach and his coach couldn't tell. He suggested taking him to the Dr. which i did. It was not ringworm so I could see where a ref could honestly not be able to tell and have no choice but to dq the kid. NOW ARE WE AS A WRESTLING COMMUNITY DOING THE RIGHT THING BY ASKING ONE PERSON ( A REF ) to make a call on A HEALTH ISSUE in which he has no expertise or accountability or could we better serve our sport by trying to work out a solution and maybe even think about having a professional make this call. It would make much more sense to me for the real health and safety concerns.

I thought "Johnny Rule Book" would have posted these by now, so here you go:

Rule 3-1-2:
"On matters of judgement, the referee shall have full control of the match and the decisions shall be final, based on the NFHS wrestling rules and interpretations."

Rule 3-1-3:
"The jurisdiction time of the referee will begin upon arrival at the site and will conclude with the approval of the scorebook in dual meets and when the referee signs the bout sheet after the last match of a tournament."

Rule 4-2-3:
"If a participant is suspected by the referee or coach of having a communicable skin disease or any other condition that makes particiapation appear inadvisable, the coach shall provide current written documentation from a physician stating that the athlete's participation would not be harmful to any opponent. This document shall be furnished at the weigh-in or prior to competition in the dual meet or tournament. Covering a communicable condition shall not bee considered acceptable and does not make the wrestler eligable to participate."

In short:
Coaches know that the referee has more power granted to them by the NFHS rule book and KSHSAA. Officials know they have a huge burden placed on them to try and assess each and every situation and rule in the spirit of the rule(s).

If there is something that needs to be changed, the correct way to do it is by having the coach's AD contact KSHSAA, have the coach take it to the KWCA for them to approach the KSHSAA Board or contact KSHSAA yourself. But what's the use of coming on here and keep going on about how this isn't right and that is wrong?? All you're doing is making it look like you're trying bash the ref and his call, without really doing it.

The ref made the best call he could. If he did wrong - take it through the chain of command: Scheduler of officials for GWAL tourney, ADs, Bill Faflick, etc.

Let it go already!!!

Shane its already gone your way behind. I guess what your saying is just put a copy of the rules on a talk forum and forget about discussion. Opinions of others meens very little to you it seems. Earlier in the season another post said does every descresion have to be ran through Bill Faflic or an AD. Noone is bashing the ref I just think you a little to sensitive being the center of a few controversial calls yourself. Now don't be so uptight when others don't see it exactly the way you do. I called on three refs today who have been around much longer than yourself for nothing more than an opinion. I just think sometimes change or just discussion of change is good. I have a stepson who wrestles and I feel I have every right to discuss some of theese issues as long as I follow forum rules. Let me refrase that, I know I don't own this site and feel priviledged to be able to come on here and express my thoughts so long as I follow the rules. Noone is really going on and on,its an on going discussion. Thank you for your thoughts though I at least know where you stand.