Recently, a seventeen year old high school student was observed by the School Resource Officer with a packet of Skoal in his mouth. School policy is the student must serve a one (1) day school suspension and attend, on a Saturday scheduled by the administration, a mandatory four (4) hour class regarding the dangers of tobacco products. If the student fails to complete the class the matter is referred to the local law enforcement agency and the student is subject to payment of a fine and the incident reported on their record.

The student is also an athlete and an additional portion of the policy is the student must miss the next scheduled activity.

Is this policy restrictive and the punishment too severe?

about punishment in schools
wrestling in our school is a sport where some kids get a chance to do what they like wrestle, but when one of
our wrestlers get in trouble the punishment is twice as bad as one of the basketball player get for the same thing.
Our A.D. hates wrestling and since hes been in our school has never been to a wrestling meet other than home meets. He has gone so far as getting on the kids web site and looking for pictures of kids doing something wrong and punishment follows, but the basketball boys walk away and still play the next game and its like a horse with blinders on you only see what he wants to see.

In this particular instance the student is my son.

I am a strong believer in individual rights and the responsibility which comes with protection of those rights and personal freedoms. In this instance I believe the parents and the administration must take appropriate action to provide educatation on the dangers of tobacco use.

Personally, I do not agree with the one (1) day school suspension, as I am uncertain if missing school is in the best interest of any student. The remainder of the punishment I have no disagreement with. My son knew of the policy, and failed to abide by the rules. Fortunately the incident occurred this week and not next week, which would cause the athlete to be suspended for Regionals and therefor the opportunity to qualify for the state tournament.

I have other thoughts which I will add later.

I would be willing to bet that the schools punishment was mild compared to what happened when he got home! You scare ME, Richard… and I ain’t afraid of anything!

I agree with you that suspension is vary rarely that good of a punishment unless the student caused harm to another student which did not happen in this case. If you suspended students for doing things only harmfull to themselves then you are pretty much just telling them to take a day off and giving them some R&R. At the same time i dont think the punishment is to severe at all, at some schools the cops would be called right away and the student would have to deal with the law, and would also miss way more than just one weeks activity. The punishment might not really make that much sense, but i dont think it is to severe at all, just my two cents but im probally wrong.

I think that policy is popular with many schools. In 93 Clearwater's best wrestler was caught with a can of chew. Even though he was 18 he was still suspended. This was the day before regionals and he was done for the year because of it. I agree with the fact that the student shouldn't miss school though. An in school suspension seems better from an academic standpoint.

Out of school suspensions are best reserved for serious matters such as assault or drugs — or for second or third offenses of more minor things. As Curtis said, this is a pretty common punishment. As you said Richard, fortunatley, it was this weekend and not Regionals.

There was a kid up here that was caught with chew the Monday before State last year. He was suspended and the third-place kid from his District replaced him at State and finished fourth.

Ouch.

Chewing and smoking are very "destructive behavior" and any punishment now that keeps someone from having their mouth, tongue, lips, and lungs rotting from cancer later cannot be too harsh. I've had relatives die, and there those dieing now, from tobacco use. Its unbelievable to me that its legal from anyone to possess but that's big government and big business. (Soapbox)

Plus its illegal to possess, just like beer.

But getting kicked out of school for a day for anything always seems to me like the boss coming in and saying, "you screwed up, take the day off." The better punishment would be more school, not less. The problem with that is that school - which is supposed to be a good thing - now gets turned into a punishment...how about taking away your drivers license for 30 days...oh, that's already the law, I think...maybe enforce it?

Chewing is naturally a popular habit among wrestlers. It suppresses hunger when your cutting weight and it keeps you mentally sharp when you have to skip a few meals towards the end of the week. I dont believe that if a student is 18 years old that they should be punished at all for posessing chew.It is a legal activity if you are of age. However,I believe it is against school policy in the state of Kansas to posess any tobacco product. If the student is underage I think that taking a hour long class on the dangers of tobacco or something similar is appropriate enough. I think it is counterproductive to suspend the student. When I was in high school I would have loved to have a thursday or friday off the day before a tournament.

The out of school suspension does come with the added bonus of getting zero's in all of your classes at our school. For some students, that zero hurts. Especially if you are right on the line with passing a few classes.

Chapman is pretty strict as a school but each coach is a little tougher or more strict than others. At our school, the strict coach is our baseball/football coach. He hands out a book (about 10 pages long) full of what you can and can't do. The students know he takes everything seriously and if you want to play, you have to follow his rules. A couple of years ago, our star pitcher was caught smoking a cigarette during open lunch hour (away from school). He was suspended for two weeks. The second time he was caught smoking (again away from school), he was kicked off of the team. This same person is also a coach on the football team. His tough policies carry over to that sport as well. Earlier in the year, some of the senior boys thought it would be funny to get mohawks. This coach told them they had one week to shave off the rest of their hair or they would be sitting on the sidelines. Needless to say, they shaved off their mohawks. He has curfew hours and will call your house. You, not your parents, have to answer the phone. If you don't, you don't start. As for alcohol, let's just say that after reading his two pages on the subject, my son doesn't even drink root-beer.

This is all mild when compared to the USD 407 alcohol and drug policy. If a person is caught with Tobacco or Alcohol, regardless of age on campus, they are subject to 4 days In School Suspension, where they can only earn 70% of their total points in classes for homework and tests but are still required to attend school just isolated from the rest in a room. In addition to the 4 days you cannot attend any activities in those 4 days while in ISS including but not limited to Prom, Basketball games, FFA things etc..... You are then suspended from any activity for 4 weeks after the incident. You cannot compete athletically, musically whatever for 4 weeks after that.

We had a heavy weight get caught with chew my junior year, he was allowed to come back the day before regionals... he still was a State Qualifier but missing 4 weeks for one dip cost him...

So Richard in question was his punishment too harsh? Nope. I think it should be tougher, if they want to go against the rule set fourth in the handbook they should have to pay the crime.

mom4-
first of all i think that is a bit over the top on the part of your coach, but i digress. i'm sure you have a high quality young man who out of school suspensions is not an issue. but just so you know if the incident ever occurs you need to press the school policies of zeros for out of school suspension. its actually illegal to punish a student with bad grades for disciplinary issues.

Is it really? Whoa, I had better read up on the liturature for that one. Any OSS student I have recieves a 0 for the day he/she is absent from my class per school policy. I suppose I should consult a lawyer on that one if I am breaking the law, but what good would it do. Seems to me that parents and students get to make all of the rules these days anyways. Schools hand out rules of conduct, coaches hand out contracts and nobody has a problem until a kid knowingly violates the rules and all of the sudden the rules become too harsh. I am glad you son will get to finish his season Richard. If it were my school, he would lose a quarter of his season for the same violation.

I'm not sure on any laws, but I wouldn't disagree if you said punishing a kid with a bad grade is illegal. However, the punishment is the suspension, the 0 you recieve is an externality, and not the actual goal of the punishment.

Like many things in our society there will be different sides of the argument. Those who think its fair, those who think it not, and those who will think short of a firing squad it not strict enough. Than we get into the "Its against the Law", for a minnor to posses Tobacco. Well it is K.S.A 79-3321, but by standards when compaired to many other states this is a very week punishment, and not even consisdered something of bad nature by our Law Makers, a $25.00 fine. But it can lead into a Child in need of Care, depending on who is pushing it, and again this only consist of court time, parents missing work, kids being put on probation, and being monitored by someone who is trying their best to justify the job they do. One State comes to mind on their laws for minnors in possesion of Tobacco is New Mexico, we are a far way from this.
And as far as getting a bad grade, or a 0 while being on suspension, there has actually been Lawsuits filed over this. Every State has handled it different, but the main agreement of most is that the law to protect students does not extend to "Unfair teaching practices", and most cases are dismissed at that point.
I know each, and every student athlete reads, and signs a agreement of the rules prior to the start of every sport. And that every school has their own agenda of what they consider expectable behavior. And I truely feel that as athletes, most kids, without being asked, hold themselves to a higher standard than the typical student. But we all know, and it has went on forever, and will continue to be, the ones who get caught, and are used to make a example of. And those that the SCHOOL, and the COACHES, will bend the rules for, and turn their head to what they know is going on, and I'm speaking of allot worst things than a dip of chew.
And how many of the teachers, and coaches that are in charge of inforcing these policies, just put out a cigarette in the lounge, or tucked a dip of snuff back in the deep corners of their own mouths, when they confront a student for violating a school policy? But than again they are teaching our childern with directly knowing they are, in prepairing them for life after school. Because these same injustices that we as partents feel are taking place in our schools, take place every day in the work force.

Bill:

Eudora's rule is pretty much the same as ours — one-fourth of the dates on the schedule on first offense (Second offense is half, third is one-year death penalty). Along with that — for alcohol or tobacco possession on campus — there is three days of in-school suspension. To get out-of-school suspension, there has to be eveidence of harassment, assault or serious drug possession or use on campus before that's going to happen. And something like that would probably be a precursor to explusion.

OSS is the harshest penalty which a public school can impose. That it is looked upon as a "day off" speaks volumes about the way our society takes for granted the amazing concept of a free and public education and how parents view it as well. "Back in the day" if you got kicked out of school you got worked hard at home during the "time off."

It has been held by the courts in almost every case over the past
20+ years that punishing students with a loss of grades due to the school imposed penalty of an out-of-school suspension is double jeopardy. Students must be allowed the OPPORTUNITY to make up any work missed during OSS. There is some split as to whether the school must provide the work while the student is on OSS or that it is OK to do so upon their return to school. (DISCLAIMER: THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED TO BE LEGAL ADVICE; YOU SHOULD CONSULT YOUR OWN BOARD OF EDUCATION ATTORNEY AND/OR THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT OF KASB AND/OR THE LEGAL COUNSEL OF THE KSDE TO VERIFY THE LEGITIMACY OF WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN AND TO DETERMINE THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION FOR YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT.)
However, many schools still impose this penalty in many variations. It just proves the old adage (and I am paraphrasing here) that school rules are good until a mad parent and their attorney show up.

The situation as presented does beg the question: the boy was engaged in an ILLEGAL activity. Perhaps the school should not provide an intermediate step in punishment; perhaps it should just be handled by law enforcement and the school adopt a zero tolerance stance; THAT IS, a student with a legal issue is probably not in good standing in regards to the KSHSAA and should be banned from any KSHSAA sponsored activity--period. Would that be better than a one day OSS?

Richard, out of curiosity, if the violation had occured the week prior to Regionals, or the week prior to State would you have requested an injunction against the school's penalty?

Mr. Mann:

Absolutely not! What would my child learn from that?

I must also add that "back in the day" I also served several out of school suspensions for my failure to keep my hands to myself. I was one of the smallest in my class and had difficulty when the larger students attempted their bullying tactics. Eventually the larger students realized there was going to be a battle and I was left alone.

My father and the Assistant Principal were golf buddies and dad finally convinced the Assistant Principal that despite the hard labor I endured out at the farm, I enjoyed it, and the swats from the Assistant Principal's old fraternity paddle with holes drilled in it, or in the alternative the football coach’s tennis shoe was far more beneficial.

If a student has not felt the tennis shoe sole across their bare bottom they do not know what they are missing, and my children have never felt the tennis shoe or the wooden paddle.

Richard, as we all know, paddling with a board, tennis shoe, etc. is no longer an option for school imposed discipline. No amount of "hankering" for the good old days is going to bring it back. Your situation moved forward to the present day would find the "bulliers" being held accountable and/or the school being held accountable/liable for your need to "defend" yourself.

Back to the question posed about the school providing an intermediary penalty for an illegal activity: do you think a school should be involved when the penalty is directed towards participation in an extracurricular activity; that is, not an activity that the school is required to sponsor, or one in which the student is required to participate?