i think he could of made the NFL if he wouldn't have suffered serious knee injuries. I watched a game on espn2 and they had to double team him every play

i don't know if Zlatnik is "unstoppable", joe payne lost to him 3-2 earlier this year. Heavyweights are not at the level like they used to be in my opinion. He is an extremely good athlete though.

Westphal, do you really know what caustic means? Also, you forgot to capitalize I. Seriously, I too have seen almost all these BIG men wrestle. I think the one common denominator is the fact that they were all great athletes. As to who was better, let's face it wrestling has changed tremendously in the last 40 years. Generally, until the 80's there was one takedown in the match and it was in the first period. One thing hasn't changed though "a pin is still a pin". Okay Randy, pick me apart.

I thought the score was 3 - 0.

That is an interesting assessment. With guys like Zlatnick, Disney, Andrus and Holly being the top ranked heavyweights in Kansas this year you think the heavyweight class is down compared to the other weights in Kansas. I guess it must be a national thing because as I recall Andrus only lost 3-2 earlier in the year to Dom Bradley of Blue Springs who was ranked No. 1 in the nation at the time. I guess heavyweights must be down this year across the nation compared to the other weights. Is that how you see it?

Wasn't there a kid named Sprigg come through Norton Kansas a couple years back? I'd say he deserves a little bit of mention here. I'm not saying he's the best, but he's up there in my books. He's currently wrestling for Army right now if I'm not mistaken.

What about Jordan Badore? Or maybe Tyler Jessen? Both great wrestlers!

Vince, i think the overall depth at Heavy is way down. True, you have a great cluster of not just state level kids but national level kids in Disney, Andrus, Zlatnick, and I would throw Foster in that as well. But, at the tournaments i was at this year, there was maybe one quality big guy, compared to lots of depth at other classes

Klint,

You would know that better than I do. I felt the heavyweight class was pretty good at the Bobcat but Zlatnick clearly stood out over the rest there. I am definitely not an expert on it. Is the depth in the heavyweight class this year really that much different than other years?

Sometimes I wonder if the lack of opportunity due to the small number of weight classes discourages some of the bigger football players from coming out for wrestling. Does the fact that there is more money available for football scholarships also contribute to some football players deciding to concentrate on weight lifting during this time of year? I know there were two senior Aquinas football players who were attending the Regionals as spectators on Saturday who have signed to play football at Notre Dame and Northwestern. Those two guys are big, very athletic and would have definitely been great high school wrestlers at Aquinas.

I meant the overall depth not the top few guys, granted there are good guys in Kansas at Hwt. but not the depth that the other weight classes have.

I think it is markedly down. The reasons why, i am not sure.

Klint

Klint,

You, Alex and I believe at least one other poster on this topic have said that the overall depth is down this year in heavyweight. I guess I have to accept that is probably true. No one else has disputed you guys on that. I am not an expert on it. I have really not watched that much high school varsity wrestling before this year since this is my son's first year as a varsity wrestler. This is also really my son's first year wrestling as a heavyweight. I do recall occassionally reading on the high school forum in recent past years where people were then saying how there were not that many good heavyweights. Last year there were people telling me that my son who was wrestling 2nd team 189 for Aquinas as a freshman should consider going up to heavyweight since he could be competitive there even around 205-220 due to there being so few good heavyweights.

For these reasons I am skeptical that this problem just popped up this year. It kind of makes you wonder why so many seem to want to keep their weight down when there is such great opportunity for success in the heavyweight division. Maybe more should do what my son has done over the last three years and just lift to build muscle and put on 20 pounds a year. He went from 150 in 7th grade to 165 in 8th to 189 as a 9th grader and now is at 220 and is wrestling in 285. His current plan is to lift and gain even more weight and muscle over the summer so he can do better in football and become more competitive in the heavyweight division next year as a junior.

As to why the depth of good heavyweight wrestlers might be down this year per Klint, Alex and the other poster, I do not think it is because there is a lack of good heavyweight athletes in Kansas. As I said in an earlier post, I saw at Regionals two Division I college bound senior Aquinas football players who are excellent athletes and I am sure either one would have been a very good heavyweight wrestler for Aquinas. I know there are many other big athletic kids on the Aquinas football players who would have been very good wrestlers. I am positive there are these type of football heavier athletes at many schools across Kansas. It would not surprise me that you could find them at just about every high school.

So why are they not coming out? I think that it is because there are too few weight classes for heavier kids. They don't want to mess with dropping 15 to 20 pounds are more to get down to 215. I think this decision is made by slightly lighter football players too who do not want to lose weight to go down to 160, 171, 189 or 215. I think they and probably their football coaches too just prefer for them to concentrate on lifting weights to put on weight and muscle to prepare for their next football season rather than to be losing weight to try and fit a weight class. They see football as a better long term possibility for a financial award too since there are more football scholarships available and the football scholarships pay for more than most wrestling scholarships. I see these as the two primary reasons that heavier football players do not get involved in wrestling.

Alex,

I was looking over the other topic you introduced and I noticed from this analysis that you provided us that the results do not seem to support your opinion that there is a lack of depth in the heavyweight class this year. In 3-2-1A only 1 of the 8 with a losing record was a heavyweight. In 4A none of the five with losing records were heavyweights. In 5A only 2 of the 25 with losing records were heavyweights. In 6A zero of the 32 with losing records were heavyweights.

Using the same logic that you used to say that this analysis shows that the best class in 06-07 was 4A, then 321A, then 5A and followed by 6A, I would have to conclude that it also shows that heavyweight class compares very well in depth this year to some of the other weight classes.

even though this guy only wrestled heavy 1 year... Jordan Bedore from goodland!!!

I definately know he is not the best in Kansas ever but my 8th grade year Junction City had this man beast of a HWT. I think his last name was Lee. At the Salina South tourny I seen him just hurl our heavy weight. I never had the pleasure of watching the greats you guys all are talking about but this guy was the most aggressive I ever saw.

steve chewy carter emporia only had two loses he was from emporia he has since past away. he only lost to a guy named ruther who ended up in the nfl.

I was talking to some people about Boyle tonight and they told me that he was part of a pretty fair 4x100 team! How many other heavyweights can say that?

I believe Jeff Boyle of Norton would be the best heavyweight I have ever seen. I don't know if anyone remembers but I think he pinned the guy in the state finals in less than 1 minute. What other wrestler has ever done that. He wrestled our heavyweight shot a double leg picked him up and put him straight to his back. I mean he picked up a guy who weighed 260+. Unbelievable.

This is for Husker Fan.

You make some good points about the lack of heavier weight divisions. I agree there should probably be another weight class between 185 and 200 to fit those "light Heavy" guys into.
You are probably right that many football players do not wrestle because they do not want to lose weight. But, wrestlers do not have to lose weight to be part of the team. Those bigger guys that have aspirations of playing football at the next level would realize an increase in much of their agile ability. Wrestling is especially great for lineman becauase wrestling teaches balance, one on one combat/hand fighting (which is seen in the trenches), foot work, and stamina. The list can go on. How many times do you see successful D1 football players who have wrestled in high school and have one state medals from their respective high school state tournaments. I have seen quite a few Beddor, Boyle to name a couple. Besides the guy lined up next to you on the football field isn't always in the same weight class anyway. So if a kid weighs 230 it would probably make him better to wrestle someone 260 or so. I think any football coach would be silly not to encourage his football players to wrestle as well. 3 months of wrestling is going to do as much as 3 months in the weight room. Muscles may not get as big, but better agility will be gained.
Thank you

KSUCHARGER,

I agree with you that a football player would gain a lot by wrestling at this time of year. I think that is especially true for a heavier lineman. All those things that you stated a lineman could gain agility, balance, footwoork, hand to hand combat and coordination too are definitely there in wrestling for a lineman. Other football positions would gain from those things too but I agree a lineman would really benefit from 4 months of wrestling training and competition each year. They could do some strength training during the wrestling season too. Delaying their main strength training until the end of February would still give them enough time before football to get bigger and stronger.

I agree with you that a football player at 230 would also benefit to wrestle heavier kids around 260. My son is 220 and has wrestled this year several wrestlers that range from 260 to 270 and I can see where it is helping his footwork to grapple against these bigger wrestlers on their feet. That is very much like what he will be dealing with on the football field next year when as a lineman he is either blocking, trying to combat a blocker or tackling.

You made some great points. The one point that I will disagree with is your statement that the guy you are lined up by is not always in the same weight class as you anyway. For a lineman I do not think that is true. Most of the lineman are over 215 and most are over 215 by a pretty good margin. Aquinas for instance probably had at least ten football players who are well over 215 and potentially could be very good heavyweight wrestlers. There is only one 285 spot open. Most of these athletes are pretty competitive and they are not going to be satisfied with just practicing. They would want that varsity spot. I believe that the lack of weight classes for these football players discourages them from coming out for wrestling. The problem starts before 215 also.

I would like to see weight classes at 171, 185, 200, 220, 245 and 285 instead of our current 171, 189, 215 and 285. A spokesperson for the wrestling organization that changed 275 to 285 this year said that the goal was to allow more of the heavier kids to be able to wrestle. I do not think raising the weight class from 275 to 285 had much effect on increasing the number of heavier kids wrestling nationally. I do believe if they changed the 4 weight classes to the six that I suggested that they would definitely would get more of the heavier athletes wrestling. I think more football coaches would encourage their athletes to wrestle at this time of year too.