I think your analysis would apply to a kid at any size who does not come up thru the kids program. I would say frustration from losing on a regular basis is probably the number one cause of a wrestler dropping out at any level. Yes they are behind when they first come out in high school but it is possible to still be successful. I believe it is possible for a good athlete to become a pretty decent wrestler even if they start in high school. I believe Matt Baker 189 SM East is another recent example of a high school football player athlete who started wrestling in high school and is now a state placer as a junior and a regional champion last year as a sophomore in his second year of wrestling. Actually I would think since so many have said that the heavyweight depth quality is down that this would actually make it easier for a good football athlete to break in and have some good success in comparison to the 125 to 152 range.

I like your idea about bumping up 215 to 220 but only if they added one heavier class. At this time if they were to add one heavier class, I would actually like to see 189 dropped to 185, add the class at 200 and then bump 215 to 225. So instead of our current four classes at 171, 189, 215 and 285, you would have instead 171, 185, 200, 225 and 285.

The 215 pounder from Hays natural weight is much closer to 215 than 171 or 189. He had to be hurting at 171. That kid was put together and so is the Liberal kid.

I would like to see the weights as Husker described.

This weekend EJ Walter of Aquinas took first at Kids State 16&U 215. EJ did not wrestle for Aquinas this year. I believe he had a football injury at the start of the year and probably made the decision not to go out later since previous year state placer Mike Hammer was already at 215. EJ had qualified for 5A State the previous year 2006 as a sophomore at 189. Alex Lopez an Aquinas senior who had also qualified at the previous year at 285 for 5A State at heavyweight wrestled the majority of the year at JV after he lost in his last two wrestling challenges to my son after winning the first challenge for the heavyweight spot. Basically between 189 and 280 (91 pounds) there were only two spots available for four probable State placers at Aquinas.

I consider only two classes over 91 pounds to be a real lack of opportunity for the heavier athletes. I know our Aquinas team is an extreme example this year but think of how many quality heavier athletes are on your football teams and not even giving wrestling a try. I really think if there were more varsity spots available and they did not have to drop so much weight to make a spot that we would get more of them out.

You are beating a dead horse. It isn't going to happen. EJ had the opportunity to wrestle. Apparently he decided not to try and challenge Hammer because "Hammer was already at 215".

I realy hope that 103 is not in jeopardy of being dropped! Sometimes it is the only time in a small kids life where he or she gets a even playing field.

Absolutely agree!

Vince If you think this only happens there look around. It occurs everywhere. I'd bet Norton has people on JV who could place at State but you don't see them complaining we need more weight classes because they have 10 kids 125-152 that could place. Point being we already have enough trouble filling all 14 weight classes now why add to it? There are way more "average" sized kids in the 130-160 range in High School than there are 200+. So the amount of weight classes needs to reflect that. Why add another weight class when it may only benefit 1/2 the teams out there? Maybe I'm off base here but these are my observations.

Vince,
I think if you really want to influence this, start at the national level. NCAA goes from 197 to 285. Last year, i sat at Fargo near several college coaches when some high quality 215 cadets and juniors wrestled. I picked their brain a bit, and they told me that they looked at the kids as either potential 197lbers or whether they would grow in to a legitimate heavyweight closer to the 285 mark.

I do think we lose big kids going out for wrestling, but i think it is more of sport specialization thing and lack of encouragement by some football coaches.

Hit the nail squarely on the head!

1) hammer wasnt THAT awesome, he got 5th, i'm EJ could have competed with him.
2) even if EJ couldnt make varsity another wrestler of his caliber in the room improves everyone around that weight.
3) STA is special, they have a program unlike many others. part of this is due to the type of school they are, most of this is due to hardwork in the kidsclub, hs wrestling room, and great coaching. point being, STA has more quality kids then most other schools, part of having a good program is having great kids who cant make varsity.
4) this would have to be done at a national level. we cant have weight classes completely different then the states around us, it would make going to other tournaments out of state/having them come here a nightmare.

I think seeing a kid on the podium this week with no other kids on the podium was enough for me to think that certain age and weight groups need consolodated or you need to move up for not being "fit" if you are "obese"

Mr. Disney,

Respectfully, I just don't understand why you think 2 weight classes after 189 is enough for the next 91 pounds of weight. That is a very limited opportunity for a lot of football type athletes. Many of these guys are very good athletes who could be good wrestlers. These four guys from Aquinas (Hammer, Lopez, Walter, and Nowak) do not even scratch the surface of all the athletes over 189 that walk the halls at Aquinas. I know that Blue Valley and the other Blue Valley schools along with the Sunflower League schools in Shawnee Mission and Olathe have a lot of these type of heavier football players too that do not come out for wrestling. I think we need to be doing things to get these guys out.

I know I will probably catch some business from this next statement but I don't blame EJ for not wanting to wrestle JV this year. My son spent his freshman year doing that and for state qualifier type wrestlers that is the equivalent of wrestling novice in Kids. I don't know for sure but I think EJ just figured after his football injury recovered that he could use his time better lifting weights and adding strength and weight for football rather than JV wrestling. I think this is the same reasoning football coaches do not encourage their players to wrestle because they want them to add weight and strength and not spend months dropping a bunch of weight to get down to 189 or 215.

I am sorry I do not think it is a dead horse. Wrestling once added 215. I think two weight classes over the 190 to 285 range is way too few. I believe it is possible to add at least one more. Others recognize the need Texas has 180, Kansas Kids 16&U has 235, in college club the NCWA has 235. I am not the only one that thinks this. It will change with time if we want wrestling to grow in popularity.

What I would like to see done on a national level if all we could add was one class is to change 189 to 185, add a 200-205 weight class and then change 215 to 225 or 230.

Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:

1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.

Of course not, you are advocating a weight classification which benefits your son!

OK. But, that is a weak argument. It would also benefit many other kids, not just his son.

Are you talking about 6A schools here? You have to look at wrestling as a whole not just one level. The smaller schools already have a hard enough time finding kids to fill the 189/215/285 weight classes. Why add one more when we already have a hard enough time filling them? Besides how many HWT's actually fit in the 250-285 range? I've seen plenty around 230-245 so if you do add another weight class it leaves another one open. I just do not see an advantage. The average kids in high school weighs again between 125-175, so thus there are more weight classes. Also the 103-119 range is for undeveloped underclassmen or smaller mature uppperclassment. Thus the reason for all the lower and middle weights. In the upperweights there usually isn't the competition that the other weights have, but STA seems to have an exception.

Richard,

Advocating a position that benefits your son doesn't make your stance invalid.

Did anyone say anything about invalid?

Vince is certainly entitled to his opinion.

I simply can not recall an instance when Vince and I have shared the same viewpoint and this is no different.

Richard, first thanks for making my day by telling all of us that you can't recall an instance where we have shared the same viewpoint, I was really beginning to worry. Now I feel much better about myself. That revelation is certainly most appreciated.

Richard, I am beginning to think you are worried about this topic. You have posted about four or five times on it. That seems strange for someone who thinks that the topic originator is beating a dead horse? Richard, stop worrying. I don't think it is possible for dead horses to resurrect back to life. Your frequent posting on a dead horse subject makes one wonder if Richard Salyer himself might have some self interest motive on this subject. Are you worried that they might reduce the amount of weight classes for lower weight wrestlers if they decide to add one or two for heavier wrestlers?

I really don't know what you are going to come up with next on this topic. First you basically insult the heavier wrestlers by posting three articles on obesity. Then you agree with someone that I am beating dead horses. Then when I say I don't think I am beating a dead horse you make the statement that of course I don't because this will benefit my son (which I will seriously address in another post later) and now to my joy you have admitted publicly that you can't recall ever agreeing with me on anything. Really Richard, what next is in store from you on this topic? I guess I just need to stay tuned.