I am not in favor of dropping 103 at all. Very few 9th and 10th graders cut alot of weight to get there. Most of the kids take supplements to try and gain weight. The 103 pounders have no other real sports that they can do. Big kids can play football and throw the shot put and discus in Track and Field. Not to mention that it is a whole lot easier to go through school and life a big guy rather than a small guy. I personaly would like to see the 98 pound weight class brought back and have one weight class for everyone over 200 pounds. They are mostly all boring matches anyways except for a dew of the guys. Let the big guys train year around for football rather than eliminate alot of talented wrestlers from the sport. The 103 and 112 pound divisions in Kansas are as tough as anybodys around the Country. There are more upperclassmen wrestling 103 and not cutting alot of weight than you think! Just some opinions.

I would also like to see 98 brought back,I know (most)highschool kids are larger than that but some are not.I think it's a shame these kids are left out.At the jr. college level I've seen plenty of guys with D-1 skills but will never be competitive D-1 at 125 because they're just not big enough.Most just don't continue after highschool, after a lifetime of work and dreams.I think Nash Burtin,Joey Stephens,and Dante Rogers Kansas kids who are wrestling in college would disagree with Mr.Nowaks view of lighter wrestlers getting unfair oppertunities in wrestling as do I.As to only one weightclass over 200 I don't see that as being good for the sport,but eliminaating 103 so more football players will have something to do in the offseason makes no sense at all.IMO

Vince, how many good kids are there behind 103lbs state champs that "could" be good if we had another 98lbs weight class again?

It's all what you see in your eyes as to what's best. I'm sure the panel that decides if we need more weight classes or not doesn't know anything. Without football we wouldn't have wrestling right? I mean football makes them better wrestlers, I mean dancers, I mean water polo players right?

I think if they're good enough athletes they can be just as disciplined as the rest of us are/were and learn to cut weight or gain it to succeed. It's part of the sport so why should we cater to the few so they can succeed. Let's cater those who are already here.If you really want to see more football players wrestling then recruit them and get them to go out.If they deserve to be there and wrestling they will battle for the starting spot and be the starter or they will ride the bench until it's their turn.

Also the median weight reflects the average weight of 18 year olds... what about the underclassmen (14-17) who are still developing, and thus do not weight the median of 160lbs? Could that be why there's more weight classes in the 125-152 range than up?

I can tell you from personal experience without 103 I wouldn't have been a 2x SQ... our 112 was just that much better than me, so are you saying because I couldn't have been the 112 starter I shouldn't have been the 103 starter? Or that I didn't deserve to be in a weight class that is made as to include the underdeveloped or smaller wrestlers?

As you quote here Vince...Why should a lighter wrestler be given favorable treatment over a heavier athletes?... why should we give heavier athletes greater treatment over the lighter athletes? I'd suggest writing to the NHSCA and asking them why they have more lighter weights than heavier ones, I'm sure they'd be glad to enlighten you.



If your son was good enough to start then he would have, plain and simple. He wasn't good enough last year so he got better apparently and has succeeded. Kid's titles mean nothing... certain kids get better others fall off the face of the mat... Hmm.... the late 60's... so what is that now about 40 years? Time's change, take a look at the rosters now of NCAA Basketball teams (Texas Star Player= Freshman?) Hell even in football freshmen make an immediate impact. I'm sure freshmen in wrestling make a small noise too (Nickerson, Schlatter, Varner) but I'm sure those guys don't deserve to start because they're freshmen and since I've been around longer I deserve to start. That's where wrestling is great, if you're the best you start if not it's that simple.

Too bad it is not a provable bet, I think I could make some easy money on that one. Heck it sounds like the NCAA champion could have made it as a freshmen 1st team varsity guy at a heavier weight for his school even all the way up to 215. I don't know what he weighed as a freshman but it sounds like he could have found a weight the equivalent of what my son did as a sophomore this year in wrestling 285 as a 220 pounder.

What do you mean that they could not have made it because they were too light and some barely could make the weight requirement? I guess I am not familiar with the minimum weight requirement at 103? Is there one?

Well I would have to bet there are a lot more guys cutting too much weight too get down to 103 than taking supplements to be competitive at the weight. I am pretty sure our freshmen 103 pounders over the last few years were not worrying about the need to take supplements.

I don't understand or accept this statement that this is the only sport available for a smaller athlete. It is a great one for the smaller athlete as it is for the larger athlete. Why can't a smaller athlete be competitive in cross country, soccer, swimming/diving, tennis, golf, track & field etc.?

Boring matches are the perspective of the fan I appreciate the matches of the bigger wrestlers more than the lighter ones. I also would rather watch a couple of linemen going at it in a football game than a wide receiver trying to get past a defensive back. This is not just about the 215 to 285 wrestlers either. It is about more opportunities for all wrestlers over 160. I loved watching 189 guys like Mamie, Evans, and the Ark City wrestler whose name unfortunately escapes me at the moment. If we had a 180 like Texas one more of those guys would have been a state champion in 5A this year. There are a lot more athletes like those three, Casey Curran, Zlatnick, Disney, Andrus, Holly and the Liberal 215 champion out there. I would think high school wrestling would want more of them out for wrestling.

Sorry Mr. Nowak. I didn't mean to disrespect anybody. I have yet to see a 200 pound plus guy get pushed to the back of the line or had to fight or take a bunch of crap like a 100 pound kid does. Almost all the other sports you mentioned either require speed or the country club crowd to succeed. I just don't want to see a slow footed financialy strapped kid be eliminated from sports so that a few football players can have more chances. I consider myself somewhat of an expert on the 103 class and I can tell you that there are a lot more kids taking supplements to gain weight than you think. I personally didn't have to cut any weight until I was a senior. I was an 85 pound freshman as well was Donnie Altman, Dennis Wood and Sharky and a lot of other kids. The days of only freshman and sophmores being 103 and 112 are gone. You are starting to see more and more upperclassmen in those spots. You are also starting to see the 230 to 250 pound guys taking it to the 285 pound guys. I am all for adding more weight classes if thats what you want to do, just not at the expense of the small guys. I go to a football school and those guys have it alot easier time in school than smaller kids. Wrestling is about the only sport where the small kids get an even playimg field, unlike life.

Scarecrow_103,

I don't think you disrepected anyone. You are just fighting for the smaller athletes. I am okay with that. I am fighting for the bigger ones. We are going to have differences of opinion. I got a bigger uphill battle though in high school wrestling. Ten weight classes up to 160 and only four above 160 is a big uphill battle and completely unfair in my opinion. I would prefer justing adding classes for the heavier wrestlers, but sometimes it just comes down to limitations.

As far as your comment about the other sports requiring speed. Football success requires that too and not all of the heavier wrestlers have that kind of speed (my son does not have good enough football speed). As far as some of them being country club sports, someone just recently posted on our website that due to all the high costs of tournaments (for those who choose to wrestle outside the high school season and in kids) that wrestling was beginning to resemble a country club sport. I would have to say that cross country and track are not country
club sports and have a lot of successful smaller athletes.

Alex,

I am going to respond to your post too, but I will do it later.

mr nowak,

you say that you find bigger wrestlers matches more fun to watch. i dont completely disagree with you from the standpoint i enjoy good 189+ matches just as much as the smaller ones. however, most people find more excitement at the lower weights because it is much fast. and i will say it takes two VERY good heavyweights to make the match exciting.
also, i enjoy the way the weights are spread because in wrestling having one class of kids doesnt cut it. you are right, mostly freshman and sophs do fill the 103-119 spots. and mostly juniors and seniors are placing at state at the 189-285 spots. of course there are exceptions. but what this does is force a program to have athletes in every class, not just a strong senior class, i think this is one of things that makes wrestling unique.
you have to remember that what you have witnessed is a specific program that is very good. part of having a good program is having good kids who cant make varsity, and that isnt just at the big weights. derby had a 112 who was the backup all year long and then got the opportunity to wrestle in regionals, he qualified for state and won 2 matches, beating a returning state placer and missing a medal himself by one match, had an unfortunate situation not happened with derby's varsity kid he never would have got to wrestle in regionals, thats just part of having a good program.

I don't know, but perhaps instead you could tell me how many 160 to 285 pound wrestlers who wrestle behind their first team counterpart could be good if we had more than 4 weight classes out of 14 available for them. Or perhaps you could tell me how many great athletes between 160 and 285 are out there who never even try wrestling but might if there was more opportunities for heavier athletes in wrestling.



When did anyone ever make that claim that without football we would not have wrestling? This all somewhat started in another topic when a couple of people made statements (and I believe you made one of them) that the heavyweight class was not that good this year. I responded to that and one of the observations I made was that it was not due to a lack of good bigger athletes in high school. I stated that a lot of these bigger athletes were just not wrestling and that wrestling should try to do things to get them wrestling. I never said football makes them better wrestlers but since you brought it up I have been told by a couple of coaches that are involved in both sports that the two sports do complement each other.



No, I guess my answer would be that as a 103 pound freshman or sophomore you just needed to be as disciplined as what you are suggesting for the heavier athletes. In your case you would have just needed to follow your own advice to the heavier wrestlers and just have been more disciplined and hit the weight room harder so you have could gain weight to succeed at the 112 level.



Seems like this could have applied to you also in your situation as a 103 pound wrestler trying to unseat the 112 pound kid. My son did lose his wrestle-off with our 189 pound kid in double overtime as a freshmen but he was good enough as a freshmen to be on the starting team when they went to Texas where there is another opportunity at the 180 pound division. He was also good enough as a freshman to replace the starter one week when he was injured and place first in their meet that weekend. He was also good enough to have a 6-4 record that year in 189 (a division that is predominantly juniors and seniors) and three of those victories were against guys who took first, third and fourth in a local 6A regional. He got a lot better this year but I think he was a varsity quality wrestler as a freshman too.



We have 10 weight classes up to 160 and only 4 from 160 to 285. It seems like we would have to add several weights for those 160 and above before we would have to be concerned about giving the heavier wrestlers preferential treatment over the lighter wrestlers.

I do like watching the lighter weight classes too, but what does it matter about what weight class that most people find most exciting? This should be about equal opportunity for the student population. I think wrestling should determine what the 50% median weight is and half the weights should be over it and half under. I don't believe that median weight is 140. The 1999-2002 National Health Examination Survey showed that the mean weight for boys in the United States was 150.3 for 15 year olds, 163.7 for 16 year olds, 166.3 for 17 year olds and 166.4 for 18 year olds. Those were up from the 1966-70 survey which showed 135.5 for 15 year olds, 142.6 for 16 year olds, and 149.8 for 17 year olds with no listing for 18 year olds. Kids are getting heavier. I know a lot of it is not good weight gain. But gain in height and strength training are also factors in these gains in size. I believe that the median 50% weight has shifted upward like the mean weight has. I don't know what the median 50% weight is exactly but I believe it is at least 10 pounds over our current mid weight of 140. Wrestling will be limiting opportunity for the majority of our high school students if wrestling does not start adding some weight classes for wrestlers over 160.