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Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: GregMann] #108251 04/24/07 09:26 AM
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parkwayred Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Egg

#3 DON'T go to KU


I couldn't agree more but explain that to my daughter!


I’m not very smart… but I can lift heavy things!
Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: RichardDSalyer] #108252 04/24/07 09:33 AM
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parkwayred Offline
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 Originally Posted By: RichardDSalyer
 Originally Posted By: parkwayred
Not at KU!


KU Music Scholarships
Ouote from your link. "The Department awards a number of undergraduate music scholarships. Scholarships range from small merit scholarships to full tuition. All scholarships are based on a competitive basis by audition, and are eligible for renewal each year for a total of four years provided that you are a full-time student making satisfactory progress on your music degree."

Richard how many people actully suppourt themselves on a music degree? I personally I love the arts! but lets be real! Trust me I have looked at all the angles at KU!


I’m not very smart… but I can lift heavy things!
Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: parkwayred] #108253 04/24/07 09:48 AM
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RichardDSalyer Offline
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 Originally Posted By: parkwayred
Richard how many people actully suppourt themselves on a music degree? I personally I love the arts! but lets be real! Trust me I have looked at all the angles at KU!


But the fact remains, however difficult to obtain, scholarship monies are available.


Richard D. Salyer
Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: RichardDSalyer] #108263 04/24/07 01:30 PM
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GregMann Offline
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Kale,

A well organized, well thought and well written essay. Makes your old Dad proud and would also make your old NCHS English teachers proud!

In regards to music scholarships at colleges, every band student that I have known who had played all four years in high school has received some scholarship help at the college of their choice if they requested/applied. I cannot speak to KU as I have not known any students who went there who wanted to take part in their music program. No doubt there is financial help available there as well.

Greg Mann, Norton
Proud to be a Blue Jay--AH2P!

Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: GregMann] #108264 04/24/07 01:36 PM
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GregMann Offline
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The point my bringing music scholarships into this discussion was not whether a student can or can't make a living with a music degree, but that a student can get scholarhship help through music more readily than for athletics; money that can be used to further their studies in other areas, not just music.

Just as an aside, I attended the KSU-ku football game this year (ouch!) and was surprised at how small the KU marching band was--it suited, (on that day anyway), just a few more than 100.


Greg Mann
Manhattan, KS
Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: GregMann] #108266 04/24/07 02:09 PM
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Mahan Offline
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the rule prohibiting HS coaches from working with their kids in the spring for FS/GR benefits athletes from larger cities, (where clubs ran by non-school people are more readily available) and wealthier families who can afford the travel expense. In Western KS when one of my kids says hey coach what can I do to prepare for next season I have to say oh well wait until summer then we can work on some stuff (I actually tell them to run track), meanwhile some kid from Wichita area is getting 2 workouts a week with his local club. Now there are not a lot of tournaments for him to got to in KS. I think if HS coaches were allowed to be involved we would have more opportunities to wrestle in the Spring. Oklahoma and Colorado are already having their qualifying tournaments for nationals etc. Comparitivley there are almost no FS/GR tournaments in KS (Ok has a tournament somewhere every weekend through April and May)...where you will see school buses full of kids coached by a HS coach getting better at wrestling. KS is still very competitive in FS/GR in the summer...just think if we were not 3 months behind our neighboirng states

well I did not mean to go on a rant here, but I do believe something needs to change.

I will say that given the obstacles our Team Kansas staff does an incredible job remaing nationally competitive, if HS coaches were allowed to work in the Spring the numbers of FS/GR would skyrocket (espeically from Western KS)...and yeah those programs that had coaches willing to work for free in the spring with their kids would pull away from the pack...but isn't that part of our great American work ethic...hard work breeds success

Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: Mahan] #108268 04/24/07 02:41 PM
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sportsfan02 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mahan
the rule prohibiting HS coaches from working with their kids in the spring for FS/GR benefits athletes from larger cities, (where clubs ran by non-school people are more readily available) and wealthier families who can afford the travel expense.

I think it benefits the smaller and more rural schools as well. Those athletes are probably more likely to be two or three sport athletes and thus support their schools and communities in that fashion.


Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: sportsfan02] #108271 04/24/07 03:39 PM
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Mahan Offline
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They could still be 2 or 3 sport athletes and Freestyle, would probably be easier for them to do that if a HS coach could run a FS/GR program, he could more easily work around a spring sports schedule

I was talking about the fact that if one of my HS guys wants to wrestle in the spring he is sol....however if he was from Andale, Goddard, or Andover etc...he could find a club and workout easily, most of these small rural communities do not have that option...our best opportunity to get better at wrestling out here is to hit the weights and run track, as for tournaments....I have taken my son to 3 (one was snowed out) 2 in Colorado and one in OK..total drive time of 25 hours...and those are the closest tournaments around...I am willing to do that with my kid and can (kind of) afford it....I would be willing to haul my HS kids as well...except I can't

I really believe if HS coaches could be more involved there would be more FS/GR tournaments in KS

Somebody was talking earlier about coaching for free in the spring and summer...shoot it would cost me money to run a FS/GR...and I would still do it because it is good for the kids
who want to wrestle and compete

Re: KSHSAA Changes [Re: Mahan] #108273 04/24/07 05:17 PM
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Scott Fausset Offline
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I have given this topic a great deal of thought, spoken with HS coaches, read posts, and considered several perspectives. I am not a high school (HS) coach, so I think I speak without a HS coach’s bias...

Most of us agree that:
(#1) during the HS season too many new kids quit or fall behind, and
(#2) coaches are hamstrung (stiff penalties vs feed the family) from working with their athletes (beginners or not) outside of the HS season.

It is not anyone’s fault, no one is to blame for the process, everyone is making the best of the situation...it’s just “how it is”.

High Schools must schedule a 3-month sport. Squads, in turn, have a few weeks to prepare for the first event. Everyone directs their attention to conditioning and improvements, and the season unfolds.

It begins with the “team” in mind. The HS coach plans the season around the typical participant (the target audience). The target audience will be teenagers that have done a year or two in kids club at some point in their youth, understand the rudiments of the sport, and remember several basic moves.

So it is reasonable for a HS coach to design practices that will condition the typical participant for rigorous competition as a team. Understandably, practices must be fast and furious. HS coaches must judiciously allocate time for brief demonstrations, intense drills, and “live” performance.

The HS season quickly fills with more than enough for everyone to do: practices, event logistics, routine admin, etc. HS coaches are busy with abbreviated pre/post efforts to orchestrate pinnacle decisions:
1. How many squads?
2. Where are the gaps in each line up?
3. Who has academic issues and how do we help them?
4. Who needs how much and what types of focused preparation?

Unfortunately, this model leaves little to no time for teaching the true beginner the volumes of information already possessed by the target audience. Just about the time, the beginner has just figured out “how to wrestle”, the season ends without reward. “Most wrestlers practice to go out and compete.”

Even more complex, many of our teenagers have a two season sport divided into 3 parts: HS, Kids, FS/GR.

USA/Fila events occur between the end of the HS season (Feb 24, 07) and Memorial day (May 28, 07). Kansas Freestyle State (June 2, 07) is usually the same week school lets out. This year, as with most years, HS coaches will have only 3 days to coach their wrestler...not enough to consider “serious”.

In June, wrestlers can get ready for Junior/Cadet Nationals/Duals, but there are no appropriate local tournaments for beginners. Coaches have opportunity to work with the experienced wrestlers; yet, once again, these are impractical sessions for the beginners.

In a perfect world, link consumer to producer. The rules for “HS Coaches and their athletes” are getting closer to that end. Just one more tweak, remove any reference to dates: Memorial Day and Labor Day. I am not clear on the significance of these dates. Maybe they limit risk or fend off violations of some sort, not sure? We need to discuss and seek to understand.

In a perfect world, coaches could help their wrestler whenever that wrestler needed the help. In this parent’s mind, all of our teenagers must be the target audience, not just ‘the experienced’. We should encourage our teenager to pursue hard-work and dedication…and the coach that wants to stay involved. Hold open rooms, camps, let them lift, etc. and then about a month before the season have pre-season open room to show the basics to the new freshmen that might want to join the team.

Swimming just gained some major changes. They figured out how to communicate their message to the rule makers. It is our turn to follow that example and figure it out too, united, without biting each other.

The system works, rules are improving, HS coaches do want to help, Kids coaches too, Kansas has lots of talent, etc, etc, etc. Each sport has subtle nuances as well as differing issues and needs. One size does not fit all. Some sports are one’s hobby, but another’s passion.

We’re all headed in the right direction...for the right reasons, the kids...swimmers are leading their example...I only wish we could remove the dates, soon.

Last edited by Scott Fausset; 04/24/07 05:27 PM.

You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein
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