Great statement Rassler, thats what I ment when I said Randy used the word May.

One thing that attracted me to this sport in the first place was the lack of politics. The varsity team was determined by one-on-one competition not by who your dad was, how much money you gave the booster club or if the coach liked you. Now the very thing I despised, politics, is right in the middle of the sport I love. Instead of focusing on making more opportunities for kids, finding more coaches for kids, getting more kids to wrestle, improving facilities, rewarding volunteers, treating those who love the sport with respect we are focusing on these things:

Limiting coaches passes
Upholding ejections with no executive oversight or appeal process
Fatten the bank account as much as possible
Force coaches to have background checks

I am sorry but none of these objectives will help our sport grow or make it more enjoyable for those who are already involved. I am not saying I disagree or agree with any of these topics but what I am saying is why isn't our energy focused on:

Getting more kids to try our sport

Creating more team events for kids

Fund more wrestlers and events

Figure out how to sanction a 6 and under state

Create a novice state

Work on losening the KSHSAA up to get more kids from Middle School and Junior High to join USA Wrestling Clubs

Fund more open practice facilities and clinics

Create a Kansas tournament series to allow wrestlers to generate points and win awards

Why can't we focus on positive things? Sportsmanship is no different today than it was when I started kids wrestling in 1971 so why are we wasting our time on this topic? We need coaches and the kids need them more than ever at state. We need more coaches passes, not less! The problem is that a majority of the 70 clubs left during the voting portion of the meeting were upset that about that number had left early so they voted to show their displeasure by taking away passes without thinking what this was going to do to the kids. I didn't right down the names of those who voted for it but I know that Bob Stein was adamantly against this but to no avail. Common sense could not prevail. I have thought long and hard about how to overturn this decision but I cannot short of an emergency meeting which a quorum of club directors would attend. We DO NOT want to empower the Executive Board to make decisions without the State Body approval. Are there any other ideas out there?

Could a poll be created on this site, a password mailed to each club director to access the poll to make (1) vote, and have this poll available to the rest of us so we can watch the outcome? I don't know what it takes to have a (quorum), but I think this could be a solution not only for this, but maybe for the other topics that are voted on at the state meeting. Being able to do business online might be a step in the right direction. It would odviousely save us time and money.

Now we are getting somewhere in this discussion. Randy's sign off says a lot about checking our motives. Are we making a "POSITIVE" difference in the life of kids? The last 5 or 6 posts have brought up terms like restrictive, petty, authoritative power and good old boy network. If taking away coaching passes hurts the kids, all of us involved in Kansas wrestling need to take a deep breath and GIVE THEM BACK. If it takes a specially called meeting to invite a quorum of club directors, let's get it scheduled. I have never understood why we can't have e-mail's sent to each club director asking for their vote. Can we not have a level of trust that they will be answered honestly? This state has too much to be thankful for to let these "petty" issues rob the kids of their joy.

I make the motion that all coaches that need a coaches pass for the state tournament be given one. There is no restriction on the number of coaches at the qualifing tournaments, we don't need them here. Can't be any more crowded than some of the qualifing events!

Then if you want a stick or carrot to get the clubs to the state meeting use something like this. Show up to the state meeting and you club dues are $50, don't show up and they are $100. Then of course make it known WHEN the census will be taken for the attendance at the state meeting.

Tom Heald

I second that motion

What is the reasoning behind limiting the number of coaches passes?

Will,

You bring up some very valid points. We tried to make this a positive by rewarding the clubs that stayed rather than penalize the ones that left. There was an amendment to the motion and we voted on it. That amendment lost by 1 vote. I personally feel this was the way to go because it wouldn't have changed the original rules or premise that some people operated on, ie, sign in, get credit and then leave. However, for those who stayed it would have rewarded them with an extra pass.

What I didn't realize until too late is that the discussion that followed that motion was about not allowing clubs to negotiate with their districts to get extra passes. The impression was left with some voting members that if we passed the amendment to give the clubs that stayed an extra pass then we wouldn't be able to get extra passes in the same manner that has been done in the past. I think this influenced the way some people voted. That part of the discussion was not part of the amendment that was made and I didn't realize it until it was too late.

I am with you in that I don't fully appreciate the reason we have to limit passes. I think we should have enough passes so that every wrestler could have 2 coaches on the mat with them while they are wrestling. I don't have any statistics but my instinct is that the ratio for wrestlers to coaches passes would then have be in the neighborhood of 1 coaches pass for every 2 wrestlers. I do understand the concern about crowding at matside with coaches that are not coaching standing around the mats and people in the stands not being able to see. To me this is an enforcement issue that can be dealt with in other ways rather than limiting number of passes.

I also agree that these coaches put in a lot of time during the season helping out and for them to not be able to get down to the mat to coach at state is a tough pill to swallow. I know that we made it so passes can be swapped out but that makes it very hard in practice because you have multiple kids on the mats at the same time.

At National tournaments; Rocky Mountain Nationals, Cliff Keen Kick Off, Tulsa Nationals, etc. they do not limit the number of coaches passes a team can receive. They do pretty stringently enforce not being around the mats unless you are on deck and have a wrestler getting ready to wrestle. This seems to work pretty well.

Another idea is to give a base amount to clubs and then charge for additional passes. I know some are against this but it would help reduce the amount of people around the mat. I have heard that one of the reasons for limiting passes is so that parents (folks who aren't coaches) don't come down to the mat. By charging for extra passes it would at least make people think about whether it is worth the $$$ to be able to be matside.

Bottomline: In my opinion I think as a body we can develop some feasible solutions. We will never make everyone happy but I think the real issue is enforcement of who is let to the mats and when. This should be done by not limiting coaches passes. The state tournament venue allows for a pretty controlled access to the floor. We could make it so you are not allowed on the floor until your wrestler is 2-3 matches away from competing. This would keep both the wrestlers and the coaches off the floor.

Just my thoughts and I am willing to help work any solutions we can develop.

Shawn Budke

Are these same clubs going to asked to work a table at State time?
Was Coach Gonzo & Mr Disney's reasons for not being in attendance more acceptable than the one's that left 1hr early?

Matt

It sounds like what many of you are supporting is �Mob� rule. What is worse; being governed by the �Man� or being ruled by a �Mob�? With the �Man� you know who to vote out; being ruled by a �Mob� is very close to anarchy. A lot of the ideas brought up in this thread sound like good ideas. There are many of them that I hope my club director would have supported. I don�t know exactly how the meetings are run, but the thing I want to know is why weren�t these ideas brought up at the annual meeting? Our organization could loosely be described as a representative democracy. In order for it to work our representatives need to do their work. I think I read that 120 clubs were represented at the beginning of the meeting and only 69 were left when the voting took place. I agree that taking passes away is more of a punishment of the of the kids. I think our leadership let us down on this issue. I just have a different spin on it than most of you. Leaders that I hold responsible are the ones that were not in the room when this was voted on. I don�t hold anything against those who did their duty and attended the voting portion of the meeting. I don�t care how they voted; I think they should be patted on the back either way. They certainly don�t deserve to be lynched by a �Mob�.

I agree a lot with Cokeley, and Confucius, but I also think that every club should be represented by a member at the most important meeting of the year. Let�s be honest here, as a Head Coach of a club I need to be at the State Body Meeting, or have someone from my club attend. If my club is not represented at the meeting where the votes on ALL topics that eventually effect the kids in my club, who is at fault? Who is hurting the kids? The board members were there, 69 clubs were there, and some members here are blaming those people who sacrificed every minute to make sure that they had a say in what is happening in our origination. It sounds to me like the ones who stayed were trying to look out for our kids.

Think about this. If you go to work, clock in, stay till noon, and then leave. Would you expect to be accounted present for the whole day? I know my work would not allow this. What if a coworker left at noon? Would you fill that it is fair, that you have to stay, and he is counted present for the entire day, and gets his full wage?

Same thing with school. Should our kids be allowed to show up for roll call and then leave class early? I know that I would not let this happen in my home.

I think the �mob� needs to look into the mirror and ask �Was I there to vote on the subjects that would affect my kids, or was I just there to get another coaches pass?�

On the other hand the people who were there need to ask themselves if they made the correct decision, to punish without stating the rule first. Would you punish your child for not taking out the trash if you haven�t told them to do so? Would you ground your child for not getting straight A�s if you haven�t told them that it was expect. I believe that this was a quick decision that should have been approached differently.

I myself could not be there. I had a show to go to in Kentucky for work. As a head coach I found two members of my club to represent the kids in my club. They fortunately stayed for the entire meeting, as was expected, but not stated. Sure they could have left early, but they represented my club well, and I applaud them for that. I am proud that they stayed and tried to make a difference for all of the kids of Kansas.

I believe that all coaches should receive a coach�s pass at state; can we vote on this at the next board meeting? Like a lot of you have already said, all coaches volunteer time to help the kids of Kansas, why are they not allowed to get the rewards of coaching the same kids in the most important tournament of the year?


I know there are some legitimate reasons for not being able to be there, or having to leave early. I don�t fully agree with the decision that was made. I think that it should have been effective at next years meeting, but I wasn�t there to vote. So I personally lost my say in all the votes by not being there.

P.S. Can we get a better hospitality food for state. HaHa.

Ray Kramer
Head Coach
Goddard Wrestling Club

Sorry Ray, those of us who stayed voted down the $5.00 increase in the state entry fee. About the only reason given for need to increase the fee was to improve the hospitality room. It's back to Doritos and bring your own dip.

I just find it amazing this issue is dividing the membership in such a manner. Instead of finding a way to get every qualified coach a pass, some take the easy way out and work to restrict. I hope none of the people who voted for the issue did so thinking it would be easier for them to get 'extra' passes. Its as if some enjoy the fact this issue works to divide the members each year. It come up every year I have been on this forum. I understand the demands of our state leadership and of our coaches - I spend 5 years as the sec/trea in our local union and I know these types of jobs are demanding. But, work for win-win solutions. Punishing those who left early is not a win-win answer. AND, the idea anyone in a volunteer organization would have to have an excuse as to why they left a meeting early is extremely upsetting. Its not a job, its volunteer. Was there anything done at the meeting that could not be done on the internet. AND, the idea I stayed, so should you, also does not reflect the nature of a volunteer organization. The thought that someone will have to beg to get the chance to be with his son at the most important tournament of the year, really upset me. I don't expect a pass this year. Thats ok, my son is older. But, I will miss being on the floor and seeing people I like and maybe have not seen all year. Its nice to be on the floor. And I just do not understand why restrictions are all people are looking at. NO this vote was not passed with the best interest of the kids, and thanks Randy for reminding everyone what this is really all about.

I did hear the female at the front table with the laptop say "I will sell the passes back for $500" I wont leave her initials and edit later.

But it is not about the money!

Hospitality room = very poor!!
Raise the entry fee $20
Raise the gate fee ?
Program ad Fees $25 - $100
Score clock ads $100
$100,000 in bank
Sell Coaches passes back for $500
Stabbing your peers in the back - PRICELESS

So whats going to happen now when a kid is up and the only coach from his team allowed on the floor is busy coaching another wrestler. Who is being punished then?

Why are we punishing anyone? We should be thankful that people are willing to give up their time to coach.

The idea of someone from our state leadership offering to sell the passes back for $500 is disturbing. I think this person should resign her position immediately. This is not the kind of person we need to help this sport grow. This kind of thinking causes people to leave the sport.

I thought you had to have a bronze card to get on the floor.
why not give all coaches with the card a pass?

Does anyone know a coach who has been denied entry to the floor? I haven't been to the state tournament in several years but from what I hear there are floor passes all around and way too many coaches on the floor as it is. If a coach is not able to get a pass through the current system I would say one of two things is happening, either that coach is not wanted on the floor by his own club or that club/coach is so far removed from what is going on they have no idea how to work the system. Either way that is someone who probably shouldn't be on the floor. And when did this tournament become a reunion for coaches? Silly me I thought it was about the kids but now we find out it's about the number of old friends who can meet and greet on the floor and the hospitality room.

The comment I made about charging $500 for a coaches pass was all said in "fun", as I even laughed about it when I said it. It was NOT a serious comment - come on people!! If you really know me and my love of the sport, you would of known that!!

HOWEVER, you might be surprised who would pay it just to get on the floor. I have been to national or larger tournaments and it's nothing for them to pay $75 - $100 just to get a coaches pass. Also, at some of these tournaments, they are have rules and you are allowed so many passes and that is it.

First of all, the issues we were voting on for THIS YEAR'S state tournament were all listed on the agenda, which was mailed to all clubs and posted on the web page.

The executive council recommendation was to leave it the same as last year WHICH WAS, 2 free passes (one of those lost if you DID NOT attend the State Body meeting) AND THEN one per five (5) wrestlers who qualified. Also, if you do not qualify any wrestlers, than no coaches passes are given to that club.

The motion made was an "amendment" to change this recommendation, and include the wording that a roll call be taken at the end of the meeting and those clubs not in attendance at the end, would also loose a pass. That is what the vote was taken on -

The discussion included about whether this could be done this year, changed every year, attendance, etc. The issues we were voting on were for the State Tournament 2008, which included entry fee, gate fee, officials pay, and coaches passes. These are the same items discussed and voted on each year.

While some may not approve of it, your State Body (clubs who stayed the entire meeting) voted on in, NOT the Executive Council.


Leanna Grater

Leana,
I have been to just about all of the national tournaments and I have yet to find one that limits coaching passes. They may sell them but they don't put a limit on them.