After placing many posts and having literally hundreds of conversations all leading nowhere, I am going to go straight to the top in hopes of getting some movement towards progressive changes in place in our state.

Dear Santa,

Please use some of your magical powers to influence the members and leaders of the KSHSAA to open their minds to change. Let them know that it isn't okay to control everything. Ask them why they should care if a school wants to travel to find the best competition even it is more than 400 miles from the bordr o Kansas. Help them to understand that no harm would come from our coaches help our athletes outside of the season. Encourage them to believe that wrestlers and parents should be allowed to make the choice of whether an athlete competes at an independent event during an off weekend during the season. Santa, I could go on and on so maybe you should encourage them to listen to those who care about wrestling the most and not be guided by an attempt to level the playing field utilizing oppressive rules to prevent those who wish to excel by working and competing as much as they desire to.

It would be awesome if you could get all of this done by the start of next year's season.

Best Regards

Will

PS Safe travels and don't eat too many cookies!

... great topic Will!

I will have to ponder my wish for all but my list for myself is of one thing ... cauliflower!

I go back and forth on some of these issues. Sometimes it is difficult to understand the reasons for certain KSHSAA rules, and they do seem oppressive in many cases. Many, most I'm sure, are there because of past abuses by coaches and programs in an effort to gain competitive advantages.

What if there were no travel restrictions? While I would really enjoy two trips to Texas for football games in the fall and 3 or 4 wrestling tournaments in Ohio and Baseball in California, there are families that would be priced out of high school sports in that environment. It's important to remember that the sports exist not only for elite competitors like your son, but for beginners and average participants also.

As to high schoolers wrestling kids club, this clearly is in place to keep high schools from circumventing the allowable practice time and competition rules. I'm fairly certain that if high school coaches were allowed to coach kids clubs and the ban on high schoolers wrestling kids club was lifted, some high school coaches would make it mandatory. Some would practice 25 hours a week, and wrestle 100 matches a year. Again, I would enjoy it, my kid would enjoy it, and some just couldn't or wouldn't participate.

I share your frustration. I am ridiculously competitive. Believe me, if shopping at Walmart was a sport, I would shove old ladies. That's why the KSHSAA exists. If extremely competitive coaches, parents and schools are left to self govern, they will sometimes lose their collective minds.

Signed,
Devils Advocate.

I agree about high school coachs working with the kids programs but in our school were lucky to fine kids that want to wrestle other the inschool, we had about 20 kids out in the middle school wrestling program this year and theres not one kid wrestling for the kids program.
When hiawatha won regionals a few years ago all but two of the kids on the high school team wrestled in the kids club and now only two will wrestle when high school wresting is over.
our school will not even think of going out of state to wrestle its not the coach its the A.D. we have two sports the he likes and thats bastketball and football and belive me our football team has won 1 game in the last two years. last year at high school state we had two kids place and no chear leaders to give the kids there medals, we had to ask clay center for two girls to hand the boys there madals.
No one would like to see more kids out than I would but untill the school wants to change things will stay the same in Hiawatha.

The thing is that these rules are not just for wrestling, but for all sports in KSHSAA. Football, basketball and volleyball are even more restricted than that.

Compared to many states, 400 miles past the border is incredibly generous. That would mean Colby could go 400 miles EAST of Kansas City or Lansing 400 miles WEST of the Colorado line. That equates to nearly an 800 mile trip. A lot of states limit you to 300 miles from home, even within state borders.

As far as working with kids during the school year, outside of the season, that is pretty much universal I believe (I could be wrong, but I don't know of a state that doesn't have that rule). Same can be said about the outside competition during school season. These aren't just part of a great KSHSAA plan against wrestling.

Considering that the rest of the nation weighs in at the site of meets and tournaments an hour (duals) or two (tournaments) before the event and here we can still weigh-in at home the morning of the event means to me that KSHSAA and Rick Bowden have our backs.

HO HO HO!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are numerous KSHSAA rules/laws that are holding OUR youth back. I think that Randy is asking the right question every time he makes a post.
"Are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of kids?"
I do see a trend coming out of the youth ranks. Move!!!! There is a lot of this happening at the youth ranks due to some states and local school districts allowing the youth to advance every day. Without change, will our #'s go down? Will people really move for the betterment of their child? The answer is????

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is already happening.

JMO

if moving a family to better their child is based on the rulings of the KSHSAA, then someone has their priorities out of line, here is my Santa letter:

Dear Santa,
First, would you please remind everyone in Kansas that the future of the world lies in the classroom, and not on the mat/field/court. If people could see what a difference a renew focus on education would make, I think sports would again become a pastime, not a way of life. I would also like it if you could use your magic to protect all of our students, athletes, parents, and soldiers for the coming year. Lastly, an Orange Bowl trophy would look nice in the Booth Hall of Athletics, it would go great with a new NCAA Men's Basketball Championship trophy. I don't want to be greedy, so a Women's NIT trophy would do just fine.

Connor

Why are you wishing for, not one but TWO basketball championships? How about a Wrestling National Championship...oh I forgot KU does not have wrestling. Maybe we should be wishing for a Division I school to pick up wrestling, instead of a basketball championship. Especially on a wrestling web site.

My thoughts as well! I wish if there is a filth filter on this board we could add that word to the list of unacceptable words.

Unfortunately i don't think Santa has the power to convince KU that we need a wrestling team that would take and act of God. K-State on the other, if they pick up D-1 wrestling i would change my allegiance immediately.

A D-I program in the state (and K-State is the most logical place for it) would be at the top of my wish list. What it would mean to interest in the state and the opportunities it could give Kansas athletes is immeasurable.

Yup it's time for a D1 team in KS.

I would like to see 7th and 8th graders be able to wrestle varsity in KS. When I was a lad in Minnesota there were always 5 or 6 of us munchkins fighting for the top spot at 98 lbs.

I see teams forfeiting 103 and 112 here and I just hate it. Even our current school has to forfeit and we've got a superhero in the 8th grade who could step in and do very well.

It might also alleviate some of the pressure for kids who've already grown to cut weight to fill those spots.

I think it would really benefit schools with a small population.

Minnesota and South Dakota allow eighth graders now, and if it were handled correctly, I wouldn't have a serious problem with it. But, what I would prefer is to see eighth graders brought up only to fill a need. For example, if a team did not have a varsity 103, you could bring up an 8th grader to fill that spot. Otherwise, these kids stay in the middle school program.

Which, of course, begs the other question; there are schools that don't have middle school programs — how would we address that?

I would vote not to put any rules in that don't exist for higher level.

Here's another idea. How about adding a 94 lb weight class and a super heavyweight class. But since most teams would forfeit because they couldn't field anyone, make them only worth 1 or 2 team points in a dual. Count tournament points differently as well.

Remember Olympian Chris Taylor?? Who could he compete for now?? In HS I remember fantastic HWT matches with huge guys.

Erik:

Years ago, Iowa had a "Super Heavyweight" class that had no top limit. They had a kid one year that weighed over 400 pounds. From what I was told you had to weigh at least 240 or 250 to wrestle it. Apparently it died off because some schools didn't have anyone big enough as well as it promoted being fat. Again, that's just second hand.

North Dakota, South Dakota, and Minnesota allow middle schoolers (7th and 8th) to compete at the varsity level. Since at our school middle school wrestling is over before Christmas, what would it hurt to let these kids compete at the high school level after middle school wrestling is over? Even if they can't make the varsity squad, the extra couple months of practice they would get would be great for them. Especially for the kids who didn't wrestle in Kids Fed and are just starting. I see lots of kids try wrestling for the first time as 7th graders and do great, just need more mat time.

Below you will find an excellent example of the oppression I have been trying to fight. While I understand that Gary Musselman and Rick Bowden do not hold positions of total authority, they influence the group who votes on such policies as the one outlined below. (Start at the bottom and read your way up.) Those of you who continue to blindly support the KSHSAA please explain to me what possible harm can come from an athlete who craves to become a better wrestler by attending a clinic during the Christmas break? THERE IS NONE!!! These rules need to be abolished! I saw a reply using the phrase "unfair competitive advantage." That is total bull! Those who want to work harder than the rest should be allowed to (not forced to) get better by practicing more with their coaches, private coaches, club coaches, with whoever they can find to get better. It is oppressive to hold those with the burning desire to excel back so that it can be "more fair" to those who are not willing to sacrifice to reach their potential.


Will:

The KSHSAA office is closed during a winter break and will re-open on January 2. I saw your message while in the office today so I am happy to respond and will copy Rick.

You are correct that wrestlers (grades 7-12) who are in their interscholastic season, are not permitted by rule to receive outside instruction in a group or clinic setting. Other than coaching by the school team coach, only private instruction ( 1 on 1 ) is permissible during the interscholastic season.





Gary Musselman

KSHSAA Executive Director


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: WCokeley@Silgancontainers.com [mailto:WCokeley@Silgancontainers.com]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:18 AM
To: gmusselman@kshsaa.org
Subject: Fw: Tony's clinic at St. James on Sunday



Gary

I am assuming Rick is out of the office today. Can you clarify the situation below?

Will

-----Original Message-----
From: William Cokeley
To: A wrestling Dad; Rick Bowden <rbowden@kshsaa.org>
Sent: Fri Dec 28 07:32:56 2007
Subject: RE: Tony's clinic at St. James on Sunday

I am pretty sure the KSHSAA prohibits high school wrestlers from attending any non high school sanctioned events while they are a participating member of their member school’s team. I am sure that isn’t exactly how their office would word it. I will copy Rick Bowden for clarification but I am pretty sure that only private lessons are permissible.



Will



Rick,



Could you clarify?



Thanks



________________________________

From: A wrestling dad
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:13 AM
To: William Cokeley
Subject: Tony's clinic at St. James on Sunday

Will:

Is Tony Purler’s leg attack clinic on Sunday at St. James for high school wrestlers too?

Is it legal for a Kansas high school wrestler to participate in season in this type of clinic? My sonis interested in attending this clinic if it is also for high school kids and if he is okay in participating as far as Kansas rules are concerned.

If the answers to those two questions are yes, do you think there will be anyone at the clinic for my son to drill with at the clinic?

Thanks,
Wrestling Dad

Kansas' downfall is trying to make things fair. Life is not fair, a Fair is what happens for one to two weeks a year in the summer.

Will:


What happened?

You were aware of the KSHSAA rules and regulations prior to the decision to send your child to a school which participates in KSHSAA sponsored activities.

The extra curricular activities sponsored by KSHSAA are VOLUNTARY and do not carry any legislative mandate requiring participation.

In the instant case, the "oppression" of which you complain is self-imposed.


To be perfectly clear, I am not and have not been in favor of many (if any) KSHSAA rules and regulations and in past years have been active in several attempts to prompt change. The lesson learned is it is not a fundamental right to participe in KSHSAA activities.

I feel that if my tax dollars pay for the KSHSAA to exist then I have a fundamental right to request change and to express my views. No matter where my kids go to school because I am a property owner in Kansas and will be as long as I am alive I will fight to make changes that would be progressive in nature. Without change there can be no progress.