I agree with you 100%. Again, Brown is a state placing wrestler. Those comments were "tongue in cheek" comments directed to Willie C. My point is, a loss is a loss (that counts on your record) regardless of what happens in a match or how the loss occured, it's still a loss. OK, you lose a match, you work harder, make corrections and wrestle again. Good wrestlers don't need excuses made for them.

Revised:

103:
1. Kenneth Ornelas - 11 - CH
2. Jeff Vesta - 12 - MN
3. Roger Windham - 11 - DB
4. Blaine Smith - 10 - SS
5. Dylan Penka - 9 - BC
6. Taylor Moeder - 9 - CB
7. Isaac Ruiz - 10 - JC
8. Darrin Stroot - 12 - AN

112:
1. Alan Callahan - 11 - BAL
2. Sharky Slyter - 11 - PA
3. Tyler Stokes - 11 - GE
4. Daniel Deshazer - 9 - SH
5. Logan Singular - 10 - CC
6t. Zach Tanenbaum - 9 - BVN
6t. Symon Seaton - 9 - BL

119:
1. Jordan Keller - 12 - BC
2. Chase Nitcher - 10 - VC
3. Collin Hase - 12 - SL
4. Jesse Barber - 12 - DC
5. Derrick Weller - 10 - PI
6. Nick Rockhold - 12 - BAL
7. Jarod Ribelin - 12 - RV
8. Chaz Lawrence - 11 - OS

125:
1. John Keller - 12 - BC
2. Nathan McCormick - 12 - BVN
3. Trent Cox - 11 - AN
4. Colt Rogers - 10 - SC
5. Zach Peters - 12 - AU
6. Connor McCarthy - 12 - STA

130:
1. Kendrick Maple - 11 - WH
2. Jake Tanenbaum - 12 - BVN
3. Matt Noblet - 12 - PA
4. Kevin Callahan - 12 - BAL
6. Tim Dunham - 12 - MZ
7. Trison Graham - 12 - AC
8t. Cameron Jesseph - 12 - CH
8t. Seth Mertins - 12 - VC

135:
1. CJ Napier - 11 - CO
2. Mitchell Means - 11 - GD
3. Tony Livengood - 12 - BVN
4. Chase Nelson - 11 - WH
5. Tommy Knapp - 12 - LN
6. Colby Crank - 11 - HT
7. Jacob Wagner - 12 - MN

140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE
3. Phillip Henes - 12 - ST
4. AJ Stephens - 12 - GL
5. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE
6. Joey Lutz - 12 - SME

145:
1. Mitch Arnold - 12 - BC
2. Ryan Houlden - 11 - GD
3. Nathan Sommer - 11 - PV
4. Gage Reichert - DC
5. Cody Schridde - 12 - GB
6. Cody Eaton - BN

152:
1. Kyle Detmer - 11 - BC
2. Brent Fisher - 12 - GD
3. Pete Tapia - 12 - WI
4. Chris Watson - 11 - ANC
5. Nick Flynn - 12 - LG
6. Justin Ringgold - 12 - WNW

160:
1. Sam Thoman - 12 - AN
2. Brandon Bonewell - 12 - GD
3. Ben Davis - 12 - CC
4. Cody Reinhart - 12 - DB
5. Tyler Rosenhamer - 12 - BC
6. Jordan Brown - 11 - PT

171:
1. Scott Elliott - 12 - AC
2. Tyler Koehn - 12 - PT
3. Boaz Beard - 11 - GD
4. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Phil Witt - 12 - LV
6. Blake Willman - 12 - CC
7. William Bowles - 12 - KH

189:
1. Romero Cotton - 12 - HT
2. Matt Baker - 12 - SME
3. Mark Kolmer - 10 - EP
4. Derek Heckel - 12 - UL
5. Blake Long - 12 - DB
6. Clinton Bruce - 12 - AC
7. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC
8. Ryan Patterson - 12 - GP

215:
1. Joe Bach - 12 - LB
2. Aaron Racette - 12 - OA
3. Jake Kober - 12 - SFT
4. Nick Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Kyle Caylor - 10 - WNW
6. Tyler Downs - 12 - DB

285:
1. Atticus Disney - 12 - SH
2. Duane Zlatnik - 12 - RS
3. Steve Andrus - 12 - MN
4. Alex Thomas - 12 - NO
5. Brock Heithaus - 10 - WNW
6t. Bobby Doxon - 12 - GL
6t. Spencer Hilley - 12 - CL

FYI Justin Ringgold 152 lbs, ranked 6th ... he is from Wichita Northwest - not Derby

Scrappy,

I never attempted to discount the losses. In spite of the losses I would still rate or rank Brown over both Hinkley and Thoman. I am saying that he had a bad tournament and there were mitigating circumstances. Just because Applachian State beat Michigan didn't mean that they would be rated as a better team. When ranking you have to lean towards what would happen the majority of the time. I merely used the circumstances to point out some challenges/issues that could be addressed or should be addressed. Give my best to Scooby.

Willie C., we almost see eye to eye on a few things. You know and I know that the rankings are everyone making an educated guess on where the kids should be. They are for fun only. They don't really mean anything. One thing you said, "when ranking you have to lean towards what would happen the majority of the time." Well, since Hinkley beat Brown the only time they have met, then who is the majority winner? How did little Coke do at Holton today?

Revised:

103:
1. Kenneth Ornelas - 11 - CH
2. Jeff Vesta - 12 - MN
3. Roger Windham - 11 - DB
4. Blaine Smith - 10 - SS
5. Dylan Penka - 9 - BC
6. Taylor Moeder - 9 - CB
7. Isaac Ruiz - 10 - JC
8. Darrin Stroot - 12 - AN

112:
1. Alan Callahan - 11 - BAL
2. Sharky Slyter - 11 - PA
3. James Wauer - 11 - WA
4. Tyler Stokes - 11 - GE
5. Daniel Deshazer - 9 - SH
6. Logan Singular - 10 - CC
7t. Zach Tanenbaum - 9 - BVN
7t. Symon Seaton - 9 - BL

119: (Toughest weight to rank!)
1. Jordan Keller - 12 - BC
2. Chase Nitcher - 10 - VC
3. Collin Hase - 12 - SL
4. Jesse Barber - 12 - DC
5. Jarod Ribelin - 12 - RV
6. Derrick Weller - 10 - PI - (Beat Cokeley and Rockhold)
7. Nick Rockhold - 12 - BAL - (Split with Cokeley, beat Madl)
8. Ryne Cokeley - 9 - SJ - (Beat Madl twice)
9. Parker Madl - 10 - BV - (Beat Weller)


125:
1. John Keller - 12 - BC
2. Nathan McCormick - 12 - BVN
3. Trent Cox - 11 - AN
4. Colt Rogers - 10 - SC
5. Zach Peters - 12 - AU
6. Connor McCarthy - 12 - STA

130:
1. Kendrick Maple - 11 - WH
2. Jake Tanenbaum - 12 - BVN
3. Matt Noblet - 12 - PA
4. Kevin Callahan - 12 - BAL
5. Tim Dunham - 12 - MZ
6. Trison Graham - 12 - AC
7t. Cameron Jesseph - 12 - CH
7t. Seth Mertins - 12 - VC

135:
1. CJ Napier - 11 - CO
2. Mitchell Means - 11 - GD
3. Tony Livengood - 12 - BVN
4. Chase Nelson - 11 - WH
5. Colby Crank - 11 - HT
6. Jacob Wagner - 12 - MN
7. Tommy Knapp - 12 - LN

140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE
3. Phillip Henes - 12 - ST
4. AJ Stephens - 12 - GL
5. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE
6. Joey Lutz - 12 - SME

145:
1. Mitch Arnold - 12 - BC
2. Ryan Houlden - 11 - GD
3. Nathan Sommer - 11 - PV
4. Gage Reichert - 12 - DC
5. Steven Miller - 12 - MN
6. Cody Eaton - 12 - BN

152:
1. Kyle Detmer - 11 - BC
2. Brent Fisher - 12 - GD
3. Pete Tapia - 12 - WI
4. Chris Watson - 11 - ANC
5. Nick Flynn - 12 - LG
6. Justin Ringgold - 12 - WNW

160:
1. Sam Thoman - 12 - AN
2. Brandon Bonewell - 12 - GD
3. Ben Davis - 12 - CC
4. Cody Reinhart - 12 - DB
5. Tyler Rosenhamer - 12 - BC
6. Jordan Brown - 11 - PT

171:
1. Scott Elliott - 12 - AC
2. Tyler Koehn - 12 - PT
3. Boaz Beard - 11 - GD
4. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Phil Witt - 12 - LV
6. Blake Willman - 12 - CC
7. William Bowles - 12 - KH

189:
1. Romero Cotton - 12 - HT
2. Matt Baker - 12 - SME
3. Derek Heckel - 12 - UL
4. Blake Long - 12 - DB
5. Mark Kolmer - 10 - EMP
6. Clinton Bruce - 12 - AC
7. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC
8. Ryan Patterson - 12 - GP

215:
1. Joe Bach - 12 - LB
2. Aaron Racette - 12 - OA
3. Jake Kober - 12 - SFT
4. Nick Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Kyle Caylor - 10 - WNW
6. Tyler Downs - 12 - DB

285:
1. Atticus Disney - 12 - SH
2. Duane Zlatnik - 12 - RS
3. Steve Andrus - 12 - MN
4. Alex Thomas - 12 - NO
5. Bobby Doxon - 12 - GL
6. Spencer Hilley - 12 - CL
7. BJ Finney - 10 - AN

Blue Valley Northwest Husky Invitational
January 19, 2008
112
1st-Wauer WASH wbf over Stokes GE
3rd-Zinabu MZ dec Petrie BVNW 6-1
5th-Bolerjack OLS dec Mancuso STA 7-3

Revised:

103:
1. Kenneth Ornelas - 11 - CH
2. Jeff Vesta - 11 - MN
3. Roger Windham - 11 - DB
4. Blaine Smith - 10 - SS
5. Dylan Penka - 9 - BC
6. Taylor Moeder - 9 - CB
7. Isaac Ruiz - 10 - JC
8. Darrin Stroot - 12 - AN
9. Caleb Seaton - 9 - BS

112:
1. Alan Callahan - 11 - BAL
2. Sharky Slyter - 11 - PA
3. James Wauer - 11 - WA
4. Tyler Stokes - 11 - GE
5. Daniel Deshazer - 9 - SH
6. Logan Singular - 10 - CC
7t. Zach Tanenbaum - 9 - BVN
7t. Symon Seaton - 9 - BL

119: (Toughest weight to rank!)
1. Jordan Keller - 12 - BC
2. Chase Nitcher - 10 - VC
3. Collin Hase - 12 - SL
4. Jesse Barber - 12 - DC
5. Jarod Ribelin - 12 - RV
6. Derrick Weller - 10 - PI - (Beat Cokeley and Rockhold)
7. Nick Rockhold - 12 - BAL - (Split with Cokeley, beat Madl)
8. Ryne Cokeley - 9 - SJ - (Beat Madl twice)
9. Parker Madl - 10 - BV - (Beat Weller and Lawrence)
10. Chaz Lawrence - 11 - OS (Beat Cokeley)


125:
1. John Keller - 12 - BC
2. Nathan McCormick - 12 - BVN
3. Trent Cox - 11 - AN
4. Colt Rogers - 10 - SC
5. Zach Peters - 12 - AU
6. Connor McCarthy - 12 - STA

130:
1. Kendrick Maple - 11 - WH
2. Jake Tanenbaum - 12 - BVN
3. Matt Noblet - 12 - PA
4. Kevin Callahan - 12 - BAL
5. Tim Dunham - 12 - MZ
6. Trison Graham - 12 - AC
7t. Cameron Jesseph - 12 - CH
7t. Seth Mertins - 12 - VC

135:
1. CJ Napier - 11 - CO
2. Mitchell Means - 11 - GD
3. Tony Livengood - 12 - BVN
4. Chase Nelson - 11 - WH
5. Colby Crank - 11 - HT
6. Jacob Wagner - 12 - MN
7. Tommy Knapp - 12 - LN

140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE
3. Phillip Henes - 12 - ST
4. AJ Stephens - 12 - GL
5. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE
6. Joey Lutz - 12 - SME

145:
1. Mitch Arnold - 12 - BC
2. Ryan Houlden - 11 - GD
3. Nathan Sommer - 11 - PV
4. Gage Reichert - 12 - DC
5. Steven Miller - 12 - MN
6. Cody Eaton - 12 - BN
7. Todd Curtis - 10 - GE

152:
1. Kyle Detmer - 11 - BC
2. Brent Fisher - 12 - GD
3. Pete Tapia - 12 - WI
4. Chris Watson - 11 - ANC
5. Nick Flynn - 12 - LG
6. Jordan Meyer - 12 - SA
7. Justin Ringgold - 12 - WNW

160:
1. Sam Thoman - 12 - AN
2. Brandon Bonewell - 12 - GD
3. Ben Davis - 12 - CC
4. Cody Reinhart - 12 - DB
5. Tyler Rosenhamer - 12 - BC
6. Jordan Brown - 11 - PT
7. Greg Curtis - 11 - GE

171:
1. Scott Elliott - 12 - AC
2. Tyler Koehn - 12 - PT
3. Boaz Beard - 11 - GD
4. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Phil Witt - 12 - LV
6. Blake Willman - 12 - CC
7. William Bowles - 12 - KH

189:
1. Romero Cotton - 12 - HT
2. Matt Baker - 12 - SME
3. Derek Heckel - 12 - UL
4. Blake Long - 12 - DB
5. Mark Kolmer - 10 - EMP
6. Clinton Bruce - 12 - AC
7. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC
8. Ryan Patterson - 12 - GP

215:
1. Joe Bach - 12 - LB
2. Aaron Racette - 12 - OA
3. Jake Kober - 12 - SFT
4. Nick Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Kyle Caylor - 10 - WNW
6. Tyler Downs - 12 - DB

285:
1. Atticus Disney - 12 - SH
2. Duane Zlatnik - 12 - RS
3. Steve Andrus - 12 - MN
4. Alex Thomas - 12 - NO
5. Bobby Doxon - 12 - GL
6. Spencer Hilley - 12 - CL
7. BJ Finney - 10 - AN

140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE

I am curious as to the reasoning behind this. Can you explain? I don't want to argue; rankings like this (without head to heads) are somewhat pointless IMO, just looking for the justification.

You may also want to take a look at 160. Greg Curtis pinned Rosenhamer at Newton, as stated by Aldon Isenberg135 further up the thread.

According to one of our posters, head to head meetings don't count either! That must make seeding meetings very interesting?

What is your thoughts on the following?

If the wrestlers have not met this year, should rankings be based on head to head that happened the year before or on the wrestlers current year performance?
Example: Wrestler A beats Wrestler B last season but they have not met yet this season. Wrestler A's current record is 20-4 and Wrestler B's current record is 24-2....how should they be ranked?
Just wondering everyone's thought?

Issac Ruiz beat the Derby 103 at the Eporia Duals.

Chief-
This will add to your mess and confusion. Tyler Anderson of Clay Center beat Collin Hase at the finals of the Beloit Tournament this weekend.

Anderson also beat Rockhold in Rossville finals, 4-3.

I am a huge fan of both of these kids and can tell you there would be one seat taken on the first row to see them wrestle. National ranking services (which are certainly not all created equal) play a part in determining their seeds. So as to your "pointless" reference, I don't think it's void of merit. I believe it just adds motivation and provides for a bigger stage in which the top wrestlers can settle things on the mat. It is not my intention to slight anyone, however it is just my opinion until proven otherwise.

Who has Tyler Anderson lost to this year?

Originally Posted By: ninjagnat
140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE

I am curious as to the reasoning behind this. Can you explain? I don't want to argue; rankings like this (without head to heads) are somewhat pointless IMO, just looking for the justification.

You may also want to take a look at 160. Greg Curtis pinned Rosenhamer at Newton, as stated by Aldon Isenberg135 further up the thread.


I am a huge fan of both of these kids and can tell you there would be one seat taken on the first row to see them wrestle. National ranking services (which are certainly not all created equal) play a part in determining their seeds. So as to your "pointless" reference, I don't think it's void of merit. I believe it just adds motivation and provides for a bigger stage in which the top wrestlers can settle things on the mat. There is never an intention to slight someone, however it is just my opinion until proven otherwise.


Ask the common opponent from Bishop Carrol what he thinks.


National ranking services?

Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
VS.
Phillip Henes - 12 - ST

Any history between these two?

Caldwell beat Henes at the Bobcat Classic couple of weeks ago Score was 11-2

Chief,
I think your doing a great job. As long as people are thinking about wrestling life is good, and people are thinking about it. I'm not big on rankings in general, but you have the most timely update on what weight kids are at and how they are doing. It makes keeping up with the state's best a lot easier for someone that's on the outside looking in (like me).

Thanks!
Ryan