How much does someone wanna bet me that sharky works his butt off in practice? Any takers. The reason why he is so damn good is because of that more than any match against an inferior opponent.

I know that sharky works hard in practice. And you are right, he is not good because he takes down an inferior opponent over and over. He is good because he has trained to be on his feet, that is where he is at his best. If you have watched him wrestle this year in any of his tough matches (Callahan 3 times, Colin Hase twice) he wins because he can take anyone down, but he also can lose if he does not take them down like agaist Callahan the first 2 times he wrestled him. He did not go after the takedown record last year to be flashy or humiliate guys he did it because he thought that he was good enough on his feet that mabey he could and he did.

so what if a guy goes out to beat a fastest fall record? is that unsportsman-like? i feel if a guys out there like sharky busting his butt to put his name in the books more power to him. a kid told me once when i asked him about his goals, "i want paople to remember my name". people will remember sharky slyter. and i'll remember him as the kid afraid of nothing. the way he jumps from 12 to 19 to scrap with anyone anytime, admirable.

sharky is a bad example for this argument because he is too damn good, whatever he does is right because he always wins. if he went out there and pinned everyone quick, people would be saying that he is such a great wrestler he doenst need to toy with his opponents, he is just that good.

Once again when i refer to unsportsmanlike conduct i am not talking about sharky slyter. I never brought him up by name. I am talking about the wrestler who is 2 inches from pinning his opponent, lifts his shoulders off the mat, then lets him up. That wrestler is a punk and showboat.

agreed. no arguement here.

A couple of final thoughts and comments ( I'm aware that earlier on I said that that was my last 2 cents ... add another 2 cents:

1. To Jwatkins: Well said. Great post.

2. To those of you who profess to believe that there is nothing unsportsmanlike in behavior involving a grossly superior wrestler who (for lack of a better word) "toys", with his grossly inferior opponent (i.e. engages in conduct - however described - in which no competitive advantage - once again however described - is either sought or gained) the effect of which is likely to cause the inferior wrestler to feel embarrassed or perhaps humiliated, I want to be the first to forewarn you that your thoughts in these regards might just one day change.

There may come a day when you or yours is unnecessarily taken advantage of, embarrassed or subjected to humiliation.

This could take place in business, when a co-worker or business rival goes out of his or her way to gain advantage, the effect of which causes you to suffer embarrassment and/or humiliation. It's not that anything that they did or said was "illegal", it was just conduct that was simply unnecessary, just not right, not playing fair.

This could take place on a wrestling mat (i.e. your son wanting to try his hand at wrestling and one of his early opponents - a much stronger, more experienced, technically proficient wrestler - not just "beats" your son, but does so by repeatedly taking him down with a threatened pin, only to effortlessly release him with a smirk or a smug grin on his face, so that he can repeat the process ... again and again. And at the end of the match, the superior wrestler is greeted with laughter and high-fives by his coach and team-mates, while your son, sheepishly makes his exit off of the mat with a severely wounded ego, thinking that he wrestled horribly and wondering whether he is really cut out for this sport; worried that he may have disappointed his dad, his mom, or siblings or his coach ... and o yeah, knowing that all of this took place in front of his teammates, friends and peers. I have difficulty believing that your paternal response to your son will be: "...well, if your afraid to get humiliated on the mat, why even wrestle...".

I well understand that you may use that experience as "motivation" for your son, and if your son has some pretty tough mettle, he himself may use that experience as "motivation" for himself, as well - by doing everything within his power to prevent himself from being placed in that position again. That's what we want and hope for.

But, I'd venture a guess that this uncomfortable experience will remain tucked away in your mind for some time ... and suffice it to say, that you will not likely find yourself thereafter rooting for the bully who, for no good reason, took advantage of your son. You probably will not waste any time searching for justification nor rationalization for this conduct (i.e. well ... he was just gearing up for state, or I guess that he just needed some extra practice,or maybe he just needed to hone his take-down skills ...) No, if you are like me you will lay in wait for legal revenge: if not at the hands of your son (by a sound thumping on the mat, at a later date), then, at least, at the hands of another wrestler who can give that bully a taste of his own medicine.

Not that the superior wrestler did anything illegal, mind you, but for most of us sportsmanship at least contemplates some dignity and graciousness in both victory and defeat. As for myself, I can not see any thing dignified nor gracious in that sort of behavior.

Sportsmanship (and its opposite: unsportsman like behavior) is an intangible - a somewhat difficult concept to describe, but for most of us, we know it when we see it, and more specifically, when we (or ours) personally experience it. Trust me.

+1

It's like that old saying "what goes around comes around". or "treat others the way you would want to be treated for one day you will find yourself on the other side". or my personal favorite: Karma can be a real ......

They wouldn't be popular phrases if they were not true.

OHHH NO!!!! We don't want to embarrass anyone or make anyone feel inferior! In fact, I think if you are a great wrestler you should keep every match close so you don’t hurt your opponents (or your opponents parent’s) feelings.

Take’em down, let’em up!!!!!!! It’s good for both wrestlers in the long run!

You don’t think it’s embarrassing to get pinned in 8 seconds?

Tell that to the kids from Columbine. The kids who shot all those kids(including a stud football player) were bullied and embarrassed in front of their peers. I guess those kids should have just toughened up right? Take it like a man right? There are other factors in that incident but the basic point is that these kind of experiences can damage kids for life. The fragile mind of a teenager is something that should not be messed with. When you wrestle like a punk, this kind of consequence comes into play. That is the whole point of the argument. Treat others like you would want to be treated, with respect. the bully never thinks about the consequences until the day comes when the little kid is bigger and stronger than the bully or armed with a gun. I know the columbine thing is a little extreme, but think about it.

P.S. Dont come back with any football or baseball arguments. Wrestling is the most intimate and visible sport there is. People are right on top of the mat, one on one competition, not even close to same.

sounds like you have a son that has been taken down and cut loose alot in matches.

I have actually had a couple of coaches come to me this year and ask me not to have my wrestler pin their kid. they wanted more mat time

it may be bullyish. but "it is what it is" sometimes its a nasty sport and the other guy is that much better than u. swallow ur pride, jog off the mat and train so it doesn't happen again. by the way, i love the kids who are average at best and try the catch and release game. they look rediculous and usually get taken down themselves

you got it kchandballer- or from my experience "the underdog" has enough and the parents get sued for medical bills after standing up to the bully (guess who won)

Ballhandler,

How in the world did we get from takedowns to shootings?!?!?? You know, if a kid or coach doesn't like getting taken down they can always throw in the towel. It amazes me how crazy some of this discussions end up getting to be. Maybe I missed something, did one of those shooters at Columbine hold the Colorado record for being taken down?

This is part of wrestling. If you don't want to be taken down repeatedly learn some defense. If you get embarrased work hard to get better. Handballer that was the most idiotic post I have ever read.

did someone say the main goal was for a pin. I think the main goal for every kid is to get better each and every time they get on the mat. Maybe for a highschool kid who is wrestling for a team may want the pin more so than a young kid who wrestles in just tournaments. I have tried and tried to get my kid to do something other than a darn headlock. He insists its easier. I have a rule for him in practice is no headlocks from his feet. Next match here comes the headlock. I would like to see him use 2 to 3 different take downs if possible. This is part of getting better. But if I was to catch my kid toying with another wrestler I would kick his butt myself. Hopefully at 7 he doesnt even understand what toying with a kid means though.

Just my opinion and you are welcome to yours, but the credibility of this thread got a little less on page 6 with this statement.

24/7

JUST BECAUSE I DONT WRESTLE DOESNT MEAN I CANT SEE A PUNK. ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT, REPEATED NOT TALKING ABOUT REPEATED TAKEDOWNS, I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN THE KID IS TWO INCHES FROM BEING PINNED THEN LETS HIM UP. I BACKED OFF MY STANCE ON THE REPEATED TAKEDOWNS TWO DAYS AGO. I HAVE HEARD THE ARGUMENTS THAT A WRESTLER NEEDS TO WORK AND I GET IT. WHEN I AM TALKING ABOUT THE PUNK AND THE BULLY I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN THEY HAVE THE GUY PINNED LIFT HIS SHOULDERS OFF THE MAT, THEN LET HIM UP. CAN YOU GUYS AT LEAST CONCEDE TO ME THAT THAT ACTION IS WRONG, THAT IS ONE I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Sorry but was that on TV? WWF? Bullog Bob Brown vs. Handsome Harley Race? 1971? Drop it please. Thanks in advance.