Man, right before my quarterly bonus too!

Another factor is that I know several of those top kids were sick this last weekend. I would never name anyone to bring up an excuse, but it did hurt their performance. 119 is incredibly difficult to rank. Sparr deserves total credit for a great tournament. He is one tough kid in one tough weight class!

Agreed. I think if OW was awarded it would have went to Cokeley who had an outstanding tourney. I would argue with anyone that 4a 119 was the toughest bracket in the state in any class.

I would agree with Curtis. 4a 119 was loaded this year

Ornelas lost twice at 112 and is a State Champion at 103. Vesta, along with Detmer and Isenberg own victories over the wrestler that beat them this weekend. The last meeting, especially on the biggest stage, carries the most weight.
_________________________
Eric Johnson

Chief, Derrick Weller had a 4-0 victory over Slyter on the
Biggest stage in their only meeting this year.

Another Quote from Chief, "Cokeley could not beat Sharky or Callahan 15-5." Derrick defeated Cokeley 7-3 @ the Bobcat classic,
and lost to Cokeley 3-0 @ state. Could Cokeley beat Weller 15-5 ??

Again from chief,"When they don't meet head to head, the season long body of work takes precedence."

Derrick's body of work
Record 40-3
1 win 1 lose to Cokeley "State Champion"
1 loss to Parker Madl "State Runner up"
1 win 1 loss to Tyler Anderson "3rd Place State"

I guess my question is why wouldn't Derrick be ranked ahead of
Slyter and Sparr.

Some good points hotrodder. The Ruiz rule isn't universal. 119 is a prime example. At State, Sharky beat Anderson 13-5, then Anderson beat Weller 6-3. To add to the confusion, Weller beat Sharky 4-0. If that was the end of the story, you would either draw for seeds or rank them, Anderson, Weller, Slyter by the order that they placed. Among other factors, Slyter is 2-0 vs. Hase. How low can I rank Colin Hase? You have more of a point with Sparr, but moving Weller above Sparr would put Tyler Anderson above him also. All said.....the toughest weight to rank!

Breck only wrestled Curtis once as that is the only time we see GE. I would say he beat Curtis on a good weekend for Curtis as it was the weekend that he beat Rosenhammer. I see Curtis lost a couple of times to Riojas at state who Breck also beat in their one meeting this year 3-0. Breck also beat the 321A state champ at the Beloit Tournament. Maybe 12 losses is too many to earn a spot on your all class rankings, but his wins seem to give him some criteria.

Hi,
Just wanted to clarify something. Cas Spangler at 140# is a JUNIOR not a senior.
He'll be back!
Also, he hurt his rib with the Bolt match(we are checking today and make sure he didn't crack it)and went on to win the state Championship against some Primo competition.
That's my Baby Boy... and I want that extra year.
THanks!
And congratulations to all the State Qualifiers, The State Placers, and the Champions!
[b][/b]

Thanks Mama Spangler. Great year for Cas! Good luck on a repeat in 2009.

4A 119 certainly was a very competitive weight class, but compared to 5a with Keller and Nichter, none of the 4a guys would have made the finals.
The 4a outstanding wrestler is not one who beat a weaker and expected to win big but one who beat or upset several good ones. 112 4a was also loaded with Gentzler beating very tough guys and a deep, deep weight class. 4a 103 was also very deep with ornelales and stroot, moeder and steele.
I would give Gentzler the o.w. and only if Cokeley had beaten Slyter in the finals than he may have earned it. Great kids all around
and many deserving studs.

I fail to see the difference in beating Sparr or Slyter. They're both in the same bracket, and I think it's usually said that the cream will rise to the top of the bracket. Cokeley's would be very deserving of it, but I will admit Gentzler also had a heck of a tourney.

The difference in beating Sparr or Slyter is huge. Cokeley is expected to beat Sparr. Zach is an outstanding wrestler but not up to Cokeley. Cokeley is an outstanding wrestler but not up to Slyter. These kids are all competitive and outstanding kids. But, to be considered the outstanding wrestler you should either dominate your weight or defeat what most people feel are a superior opponent. Disney dominates. Cokeley wrestled great but his wins were against guys he already beat and expected to beat. Slyter moved up a weight class and has beaten Cokeley many times. For Cokeley to have earned OW for the tournament, he would of had to beaten Slyter. Slyter beat Haase at Bobcat moving up a weight against a state champ. When Cokeley, who could easily have wrestled 125, moved up to wrestle a state champ, McCormick, he got stomped.
Again, these kids are great athletes, great champions and rose to the occasion. Just as Will Cokeley states that Graham ( a 4x champion) has a lot of losses and likely would not place in the top 3 at other state divisions, he is still a great competitor but not the outstanding wrestler. So it is with his son.

I don't think you're giving Sparr enough credit. He gave Slyter a very tough match last year in the state semi finals but came up short. I would agree that before this years semis that beating Slyter would be bigger than beating Sparr, BUT Sparr knocked off Slyter in the semis this year making my argument that they are both high caliber wrestlers. Another reason I would give it to Cokeley is because 3 of his matches were against state placers, 2 of whom beat Slyter.

Big Dawg,

Jeeze, you act like I was promoting that OW go to Ryne. But I guess I will have to defend him now. I think he had an Outstanding performance. He beat three guys who were state placers last year, who are older than he is, in a bracket that had eight state placers from last year. He avenged two of his five losses. He was not scored on other than the releases (no takedowns, reversals, or near falls). Many forum followers and posters stated that it was arguably the toughest bracket in the state. Was he favored to win it? NO! Did he, YES! To me that is outstanding!

It is to the point that it looks like you don't even think he should be a state champ. Sharky beat Ryne ONE TIME 8-5. Were you at the Freestyle/Greco State tournament last summer? I have to beg to differ with you. Ryne is up to Sharky. Where do you get the "many times" comment? He is a FRESHMAN for goodness sakes. and he reads this forum so back off. I never said that Trison wouldn't finish in the top 3 in the other state divisions either. Nathan beat Ryne but I wouldn't say that he stomped him. Why do you say he "easily could have wrestled 125? What is your point? By the way, no disrespect to Colin but he is no Nathan McCormick so I don't think that is a fair comparison. Why don't youmove on and find some other state champ to bash or better yet let the kids enjoy their championships.

As I have stated before, all of these wrestlers are outstanding. To become a state champ in no matter what bracket or division is an outstanding accomplishment. It is almost silly to talk about o.w. at a particular tournament when you always have 14 deserving kids. My issue is not with a particular wrestler, and again Cokeley is outstanding. My beef is more with dads or coaches that single out o.w. Of course Cokeley is deserving of o.w. but so are the other 13 kids that won and by singling out one individual diminishes the accomplishments of other great kids i.e. Gentler, Callahan etc. As I've continually said, all of these kids are great wrestlers and the diservice is trying to name an o.w. in any tournament because once you do, you take away from someother kids accomplishment.

And then when their dad sees they only got a certificate it really gets bad!

Big Dawg,

You are back peddling now... What about the inflamatory comments you made? No retractions? No apologies?

I don't like the OW deal either and it wouldn't bother me a bit if they eliminated it across the board. The kids talk about it and want to win it (and yes even the wrestlers think a piece of paper is a joke, just ask them). But if you don't like the award then just say "They shouldn't give one." Instead you fan the flame. If Curtis wanted to give it to whoever that is fine and it really shouldn't bother you to the point of belittling other's performances. State your reasoning without getting perssonal like you did in your last post. Don't attack an individual kid's performance, especially when you don't even have your fact's straight, unless you want to read the wrath of their fathers!

Personally I think we do a disservice to all the wrestlers when we try to determine OW or even "All Class Rankings" after the State tournament is completed. There is simply no need to do either of these after State.

I don't have a problem with it during the season and the OW award can be a fun thing to debate at a regular season tournament. You can argue all you want about "who is better" but after State we know who the champion is. Sometimes the best kid is champion and sometimes he is not but he is still the champion.

Someone may say that with 4 classes we don't have a true champion so All Class Rankings are necessary. My question would be why is it necessary? The State champions have gone out and won the only championship tournament they could enter. What purpose is served by saying "if kid X would have wrestled kid Y he would have won and etc.."

I say lets pull down the "All Class" topic and quit w/ the OW after State is completed.

I agree. To my knowledge this is the first year it has ever been done.

Well said Barry and I agree with your opinion short of taking down posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as they are not making it personal in a negative way.

Agreed with both Cokeley and Barry. However, lets face it - this is just a hobby/man-soap-opera. As long as we don't personalize it, some of us enjoy speculating. The ones that don't - no one is forcing you to read this thread (or, any other for that matter). Hopefully Spring will come soon and then we will all have something better to do with our time. Until then, let the 'man soap opera' continue for those that enjoy it!