Maybe,

Did you ever get the feeling that you and I took off on a tangent with this thread?

Bob and Roy,

Would you please give me some advantages to having in 6A two regionals of 16 teams taking the top 8 to state?

Gary Ulmer

Gary,

Yes, I do....oh well, it's the nature of the Forum I suppose!

Just for some additional clarity;

California has one state tourney, encompassing all classes.

Pennsylvania, with 500 schools wrestling, has 2 tournament classes.

Ohio, with 529 schools wrestling, has 3 tournament classes.

Kansas, with 211 schools, has 4 tournament classes.

Normally, when talking wrestling, CA, PA, and OH are mentioned as the national powers. I understand the benefit of having more kids feel good at the end, and agree to a point. Having 1/2 the kids eligible for state is beyond that point.

That seems like something basketball would do!

I know this question wasn't addressed to me but I will throw out the first reason. It provides opportunity to have all classes combined at one venue at some point in the future. I know I will get blasted by the 3-2-1A people but it would allow that to possibly happen.

How many times do we have to go over this?

321A will NEVER leave Hays, the coaches will not allow it.

I'm not sure what the original question has to do with moving the 3-2-1As. The way I read it was that there is a proposal to switch the 6A and 5A Regional format. As Alex said, that isn't happening.

Everybody,

I am sorry! Bob Gonzales entered a request to someone who might have hardcopy of a proposal written by Roy Oeser changing the format of 6A regionals. I was interested in the advantages of that format over the current one.

It seemed from there everyone including myself had their own axes to grind on subjects that were not necessarily related to Bob's request or my question. Neither had anything to do with placing all state classifications into one building, so Alex relax. 3-2-1A state is safe for one more year.

For asking the question of Bob and Roy I take full reposibility for the mayhem I created. I think I will email them.

This is fun, ain't it?
Gary Ulmer

As do I Gary!

And yes, ain't it?

ai

The idea of advancing 8 wrestlers from two 16 team regionals for 5A and 6A has many positives.

1. This should help eliminate the possibility of having the 2 best wrestlers in a weight class meeting in the finals. If the 2 best are in the same regional they should be 1 and 2 and seperated at state. if they are both champions in their regional they will be seperated.

2. This will help get better qualified wrestlers to state. Many times 1 regional will have 5 or more great wrestlers in it and other regionals will not have as many. By combining 2 regionals and taking 8, the 5th best wrestler from a regional has a chance to place in the top 8 and therefore qualifier for state and possibly place at state.

3. This should save the state money by using less referees the week of regionals.

Teams may have more travel expense do to the fact that they may travel farther and since it would become a 2 day tournament many teams would have to stay over night. But this is a small price to pay for the benifits.

I think this sounds like a great proposal for 6A and 5A. It really would eliminate alot of the discussion about "weak" regionals.

And at the sake of getting off topic again, what's the latest on the 4As moving back to Wichita when the new arena opens? (Sorry Gary, we were getting back on topic too much--LOL).

Maybe,

4A loves Salina.

Works for me Nedly. I've always loved being the only game in town. Give me a call when you get a chance.

Hello I should have replied sooner, but I am working on rule legislation. I spent Wednesday in Topeka at KSHSAA working with the committee on weight management. Mr. Bowden will release the information to the Membership schools in due time. One thing I can say is 321A will be in Hays as long as Fort Hays State University (host school)and the 321A membership schools want the state tournament. The 4A Membership schools/coaches lobbied for the move to Salina. It has proved to be very succesful for 4A schools. For 2008-2009 Mr. Bowden is working with the Kansas Colesium leadership and 6A & 5A will be back in Wichita.
The past two days (Thursday/Friday) the KSHSAA support staff has been meeting with various organization on rules recommendations for possible change. This afternoon at 4pm. the KSHSAA Board of Directors will have our hearings and discussion session. I have been a member of the BOD for the past two years and I am up for nomination for another two year tonight. To my knowledge I am the only current wrestling coach on this 82 member board. I am pleased to say we have Curtis Simons of Hartford HS on this BOD. The topic that has been discussed on the previous two pages was brought to my attention at the 6A state tournament by Coach Roy Oeser. It has merit and I have discussed with coaches and administrators. The problem we have is that this proposal was submitted past the KWCA deadline and the KWCA membership did not get to discuss and vote on this issue. As a result this issue will be submitted to the KWCA rank and file membership next school year. I always look forward to working for our sport of wrestling. Leaving for Topeka and I will try and log back on Saturday. If you have questions. RMG

What about how the parents feel? The parents pay for the coaches so their opinions should be weighed in. Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri ALL host ALL of their state tournaments in one location. It makes a great event. Splintering the wrestling fan base and wrestling talent across the state HARMS the sport! The coaches in 4A need to understand this. College coaches WILL NOT send scouts to four locations. We are robbing those who wish to have beyond high school opportunities as well as the parents who have watched many of these kids wrestle since they were eight years old.

Gary Ulmer can you provide good paying jobs for everyone? I don't think so! You don't just give kids a trip to state so they feel good! That does not prepare them for life. State should be something special as these are young men who need to face the harsh reality that you DON'T always get what you want. You have to work and commit yourself. Your arguement about the many, many students at 5A and 6A schools is ridiculous! The 5A and 6A schools can't fill their wrestling rooms! They offer far more other sporting and extra curricular programs than their 4A and 321A counterparts.

Our coaches need to get outside of the state and see what is going on out there! I went to the USA Folkstyle Nationals two weeks ago where there were 30 plus Iowa high school coaches in the corners for their kids. There were ZERO Kansas coaches! What does it take to wake up the dinosaurs on the KSHSAA board?

Nedly,

4A coaches love Salina. ALL wrestling PARENTS want to see ONE state site.

Will if that is the case, that 30-plus Iowa high school coaches were in the corners for their kids at Nationals, then they were doing so in violation of the following rule (taken directly from Iowa High School Athletic Association handbook):

COACH-ATHLETE CONTACT (“Camps & Clinics Rule”) & OPEN GYM
281-36.15(6) Summer camps and clinics and coaching contacts out of season.
a. School personnel, whether employed or volunteers, of a member or associate member school shall not coach that school’s student athletes during the school year in a sport for which the school personnel are currently under contract or are
volunteers, outside the period from the official first day of practice through the finals of tournament play. Nor shall volunteer or compensated coaching personnel require students to participate in any activities outside the season of that coach’s sport as a condition or participation in the coach’s sport during its season.

If what you saying is accurate, I'm sure the IHSAA and the administrators of those schools would be very interested in who they were. This rule is taken extremely seriously in Iowa.

Nobody has ever accused him of being accurate, please don't saddle him with that responsibility now.

The two coaches I spoke with are both head coaches of prominent high school program. I know them both VERY WELL. They were in the chair opposite of me in matches against Kansas kids. I cannot speak about the other coaches. I know that both of these coaches have coached dual teams outside of the HS season for middle school events. I know many of these coaches are very involved with their youth programs as well as Freestyle and Greco. Could be like Missouri, they coach and have a gentleman's agreement not to talk about it. The rule is ridiculously stupid, no matter what state we are talking about, and only protects the coaches who are not passionate enough to involve themselves outside of the season in which they are required to coach. These are the coaches who support this rule so they don't have to worry about being passed up. The rule pushes down the top so the bottom can stay where it is.

Another comment from these coaches was that they wrestle nearly fifty matches a season and might get 5 to 10 easy matches. That is the polar opposite of Kansas. Most of our schools wrestle about 40 matches and get 5 to 10 good matches.

The bottom line is the 70 plus members of the KSHSAA board feel everything if fine and there is no reason to change anything. The guy who monitors wrestling doesn't appear to even like the sport. Another year, 25% of an athlete's eligibility, will pass by and our wrestlers will not get to travel to the elite tournaments in the east, not get to wrestle the best in our state, not get coached by their coach, not be able to create good practice situations, not be able to attend CK Kickoff, etc. It is a darn shame!

My question Will is whether or not they were coaching their own high school kids or lower level. If it's lower level, it's OK, or once school is out it's OK to coach the high school kids. But off-season during the school year is a no-no.