already read ur writeup, even though i attend every year i always read it and enjoy ur insight. i'm not sure i know anyone who has more passion, respect, and knowledge of our sport. i heard disney needs a workout partner for nationals, you in? see ya in salina randy

... and for the matter, Gold 94 had to be pretty close to!

Thanks for your kind words!

... and Disney knows who marinates his porkchop!

I kind of got a kick out of the idea that Flynn was an example of us being poor on our feet last night because he only got two takedowns in a tech fall. He could have gotten 100 takedowns in a row if he hadn't been so busy hammering from the top. lol I agree with you we weren't very good on our feet in those upper weight matches but the team that loses this meet can always say that. It is a year to year deal. Sometimes I think a broad judgement on superiority of one over the other based on a state line is way to simplistic. We knew a year ago that this Mo team would be very rough to handle. One of those deals, one of those years.

By the way, we are not really being dominated by "the state" of Missouri, rather we are being hammered by Oak Park High School. Hey they have been just as busy whaling on the rest of the state of Missouri. You know if Oak Park wasn't over there a whole lot of those wins would have dissapeared. The rest of the state of MO has been no more successful with them than we have in this meet. They are tough. Like Ark City in their hay day or many other schools in many other states. The Missouri side takes a lot of credit for their success in this meet but most of that success has come from two or three programs and a whole lot of it from Oak Park. They are something and I tip my hat to Gary and the job they have done there.

Westfahl - If Oak Park wasn't there Brent Haynes would still be from Missouri, Marcus would still be from Missouri, etc.... I remember most of those kids wrestling with the Competitors program long before high school. They were good then. If Oak Park wasn't around they would still be wrestling somewhere in Missouri and still be good. Maybe in a different singlet.

this may have been posted already but the videos can be seen on Missouriwrestling.com The link to Atticus match doesn't work but it is http://missouriwrestling.com/videos/kcmetro/285a.php

whoever's responsible for getting those vids up - that is VERY cool. I wish that sort of work were done for more major tournament finals. I have no idea what all it requires, but well done.

Hey Disney; Do you think Zach Roberson (the best wrestler who ever wrestled in this meet) was as good as he was because he was from Kansas? That just the nature of the state he was in was responsible for him being what he was. Oak Park scored 260 some points in the Missouri State meet because they are darn good at what they do and Gary and some others have done a marvelous job but do you really think just because they live in Missouri that that will always be the case. Not going to happen, it comes and it goes and there is a cycle to everything and one night or specifically last night does not endow one state with lifelong superiority. If you dont think Oak Park right now is a long ways above anything else Missouri has to offer and I dont just mean the metro, I think you really undersell what it is that program has done. They are right now, what Ark City was years ago, they are national good. Nobody else in Missouri or Kansas for that matter is at that level right now. I'm not slamming the state of Missouri or Kansas with this but I am not naive enough to think that based on one night of wrestling you can make some sweeping statement about how good a whole state is when the big chunk of that statement is coming out of one or two rooms.

chaz lawrence should be added to that list

My post isn't putting Oak Park down in any manner. Take a breath and reread it....slower this time. I agree Oak Park is great. And my son owes Coach Mayab alot for help that he has provided him along the way.


But you said "if Oak Park wasn't there a whole lot of those wins would have disappeared." My point is that Haynes would have found a place to be sucessful, Marcus Armato would have found a place to be sucessful and etc. Maybe not as good as Coach Mayab made them but they still would have been good. So I don't think you can say that if Oak Park wasn't there that Haynes wouldn't be there and wouldn't have won and the same with the other Oak Park guys. They would have been there. Just representing another high school and still winning. Zach Roberson illustrates my point. He was going to find a way to be good not matter what. I think a lot of the Oak Park kids are the same way. Even if there was no Oak Park they would hav found a way to be good.

The point I am making is that I see a lot of kind of silly banter about one state or the other being superior on their feet or as wrestlers in general and the whole side of the metro isnt showing that. I do think that they (Oak Park) are getting their kids to a very high level and I don't believe those same kids would be that way just anywhere they went. That kind of wrestling doesn't happen because the water is better on one side or the other, it happens because they are outworking everyone over there and everyone over here. My point is the rest of the state of Missouri is not our problem. You look at the history of this thing and the most any program in Kansas has won is 7, Mo is dominated by Oak Park, Oak Grove, Park Hill and Blue Springs and mostly the first two. Yet in the history of the event there is only about 20 matches difference in the two states. The original statement I object to is that whatever happened last night shows some superiority by the "Missouri" kids on their feet and I just think Oak Park is just as superior at the state meet in that regard as they are in the metro meet. Hard to make that generalization based on last night like it would have been the last two years the other way. Hey Haynes is real real good. Next year there will be some other kid that is real real good. I read what he said in the paper this morning. I like the way he wrestles a lot more than the way he is quoted (not being sure that is what he actually said). lol by the way I read pretty well at any speed.

i really thought kansas would win

By the way please don't take this as some sign of disrespect for anyone on either side of the line. I respect in my heart any kid who works as hard as all those kids in that meet last night, for both teams, have worked to get to the level they are right now. I just don't believe in geography being a factor, or the birthrite of one state or the other. That part of this rivalry sort of feels wrong to me in many ways. I just have met too many good people on both sides of the line to make those judgements.

zlatnik was gassed when he wrestled madison

Paper Clip I love your optimism. We knew it would be a real challenge this year. We sort of talked about this team last year as one we would really have to pull out the stops to stay with and as you can see, they were a real load.

did anyone else watch him shake the opposing coach's hand then go directly to the nearest trash can ??



In no way is this an excuse - but I can't help but wonder if he wasn't quite healthy. He was DONE 1/2 way through the match.

Zlatnik hadn't wrestled an entire match since the first tournament of the season. Also has been battling a sinus infection for about the last two months that he had to miss a lot of practice time for. Not and excuse because I don't think it would have mattered I think Madison is always going to be 2-4 points better.

Westfahl -
I agree with you that Oak Park / Gary Mayab takes kids to a whole new level and that a state line means nothing. I probably read your first post too literally.

I wish I knew you could read fast because then I would not have typed my posts so slow.

Another point to make for Duane. It does not help when there is not a good group of 285 in the state with the exception to DISNEY. These 2 did not get to wrestle as some did not want to continue the shawnee couty classic. So it makes it tough to really even go a full 3 periods in a dual or tourney. Which nothing ever went past the 2 period with him,most of the time it was over with before the first minute. Then you also factor in dual matches where a kid would scratch, but wrestle every other match. This happened several times this year. Then there is the practice room, a kid that big and a town that small you just get that many 285/215 kids, that wrestle or want to wrestle so the one taking the beating is the coach and he has many battle wounds from the last 4 years. Did Duane wrestle great that night NO but it was for fun and the better wrestler won and that is why he is where he goes to school and where he is ranked. You mentioned him hanging over the trash can well maybe he was not feeling good nothing ever came out. And probably being gast was a majority of it-big deal.

First, let me acknowledge that I am a SME Lancer and very loyal to our wrestlers. Everyone is talking about Haynes and rightly so, he is a beast. There is a reason that he is highly ranked nationally and has already signed to wrestle for MU. Despite the fact that Haynes is obviously the better wrestler, I would like to point out that Baker fought off his back to avoid the pin and scored a reversal to hold off the tech fall. Some credit needs to be given to all of our wrestlers who are willing to represent Kansas, work hard in extra practices and put it on the line in a high-profile event against sometimes overwhelming odds.