Congratulations to the Missouri side. My thoughts on Oak Park ... It is a great program for wrestlers who want to compete at a higher level to get ready for D1 wrestling. A lot of states have teams like that. If I was a wrestler or parent whose goal was to win an NCAA D1 title, I would move to Oak Park to better myself, just like some MO kids and KS kids do. Nothing wrong with that. In terms of Ark City and Hoxie when those teams were nationally ranked, I don't think anybody ever moved to those towns. I'd rather move to Hoxie than KC, however.

I think Randy had is right just used a bad example. So Randy I will help you out. In stood of using the Nick Flynn match ((which was a poor match up)) So lets look at the 171 - Clarence Neely (MO) dec. Phil Witt 11-7 match up.

Neely completely dominated the first period with 3-4 takedowns. Taking a lead of somethin like 6-2. The next period Witt completely dominated the match even taking a 7-6 lead going into the final period while riding the missouri wrestler out. It was clear that when we (Kansas kids got on the mat we could put the Show Me's on their back) . How ever the third period was decided with a takedown which did lead to a nearfall and the missouri win.

also notice how many time did the missouri wrestlers opt out of referee's position and start neutral. I'm not gonna the missouri wrestlers cant wrestle on the mat, honestly I couldnt tell you because they were never down there unless they were losing.

If you can take your opponent down there is no real reason to ever get on the mat. if your a good mat wrestler you still have to get the takedown FIRST before u can get into a riding position.

I agree with Randy these match up dont mean that everyone in KS sucks on their feet and everyone in MO needs mat work. But I will tell you from 152 up its was no fun for the KS side while a takedown clinic was run for the next hour.

Maybe KS coaches need to think about whats really better takedowns or matwork and re calibrate heir styles accordingly.

AND one last thing to consider... EXPERIENCE... In some of the match ups I dont think the MO guys were overwhelmingly better than their KS counterparts but their ability to extensively coach their kids, their freestyle and greco really ads to the number of QUALITY matches they have against upper level opposition.

Last year was my first year being involved with freestyle/greco and i think its somethin that should be pushed FAR more than folkstyle. even if that means shorting up the season or reducing opportunities for the 16U. I was a folkstye guy for a long time. When I wrestled I didnt get involved in kids club till I was in high school and it was a great experience for me. However, if someone said well your too old to wrestle 16U so you should do freestyle... in stood of just wrestling it march I most likely would have continued to wrestle FR/GR well into the spring. After last year and my experience with freestyle/greco I think its a must.

Sorry it was long I havnt posted anything in a long time so had to get that all out..

Travius

No proofreading so read at your own will.

Duane was facing us when he hurt his shoulder. I think that hurt a lot more then we know and he continued on will alone. I beleive he was at the trash can not b/c of conditioning but because of the nausea from the shoulder. I was really scared it was serious but apparently it wasn't. However, I think that was the turning point for him.

Travius,

Here is a different spin on your thoughts. If we go to more of a freestyle format and continue to legislate out wrestling on the mat with our rules, why don't we just change the name of the sport to Men and Women's Takedowns, or maybe Limited Wrestling.

I know those new titles are goofy, but that is where we are going. We are so restricting our wrestlers to takedowns only, that we are taking the wrestling right out of it. Might it be that the wrestler who lets his opponent up continuously is stalling? How about avoiding wrestling? I love freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling, but lets call them for what they are, very limiting forms of wrestling.

Time Stands Still

Time stands still-your spin is way off.

24/7

I thought nick flyn wrestled pretty well wednesday night

I've looked back to the post I made Wednesday night. I thought maybe, at the late night hour, perhaps I in some way slighted the skills of Nick Flynn!

Nick is a fantastic wrestler that comes from an outstanding family! My intentions were to suggest, that Nick had "all aspects" of wrestling within his toolbox! Nick won the match, 15-0 with a pair of takedowns and a bunch of near falls!

To me, that shows a well-rounded skill set. A wrestler that wins a match 20-5 where he wrestles predominantly on his feet shows a different set. Now, that is not to say that in a 6-minute match, we get to see the entire toolbox of a wrestler. We only get to see the tools that are displayed!

Now, I do feel, that the ability to ride and turn will pay-off at the collegiate level!

We saw a few examples of the ability to ride and turn (or at least to work for the turn). Collin Hase, Phillip Henes, Nick Flynn, and Phil Witt showed that they have these abilities!

With all the OP talk, keep in mind that perhaps their best wrestler, Dylan Joiner, did not participate in the MO/Kan. We would have been at 145.

I think one of the biggest problems with youth wrestling that carries over to HS is that wrestlers aren't very good on their feet. If you look at the best wrestlers in the country outside of KS & MO (ie: David Taylor, Jordan Oliver & etc), they all are excellent wrestlers on their feet. They do have the other skill sets but the matches start on your feet.

I have my son workout with a couple of KS best wrestlers (Tommy Williams & Bryce Shoemaker) after practice doing live takedowns. They have helped him out alot and hopefully we've done the same for them. The KS parents have been kind enough to allow them to work with my son. We apprecicate it alot.

When you have a wrestler who can do a takedown clinic on his opponent, it forces that opponent to have to pin his guy to win the match (ie: Neely vs Witt, Armoto vs Randell and Pierce vs McCormick). I do believe you need to be good at mat wrestling as well but at the same time, you start on your feet. You have to be able to protect your legs or it's going to be a long day. The same can be said for college wrestlers. The best wrestlers in college can't hold down or get back points against tough opponents and they end up back in neutral position, takedowns are very important.

This is an interesting topic and it shows that MO & KS styles are different and in the end, both states are tough and we enjoy this event year after year. We'll be back next year.

definately

i thought the last match at the metro would be a good match, but DISNEY handled that kid

i would of liked to see DISNEY take on MADISON

i'll agree it's obvious u have to be good on your feet at the next level. but i enjoy watching some of the great top wrestlers in the country like nick simmons Mich st, jason ness Minn, coleman scott OSU, and mark perry Iowa. i think the lesson is be prepared to get off bottom or any one of these fellas could make it a long night for ya. i grew up with the the coaching "if u can can take him down and escape him, you'll win" but over the years i've come to appreciate the good top guys. the match that sticks out most in my mind from metro,(i know it was already brought up) is is witt vs neely. neely was BA on his feet. then witt chooses top and neely looks lost on bottom. if u watch the film you'll see his feet up in the air while he's on bottom. it's obvious he's not trained to be in that position. bottom line train to be good in all 3 phases.

when was the last disney madison matchup? i thought it has been a couple years.

i never knew they ever wrestled each other

did anyone see madisons thighs they were HUGE

lakemats,

Very good point about the Neely vs Witt. Witt was very impressive on top. If Witt could've gotten a takedown, the match could've went the other way. The advantage that Neely and others have is that the 1st period is on your feet. When they get their choice, on their feet again. So they have 2 shots vs their opponents who will only have once choice.

My son has been runner up at National events because his opponent (nemesis) is better on his feet. He's lost by 2 or less points via his nemesis because of a takedown. They both are equal on the mat. Also, my son has lost to Zac Gentzler a couple of times by 2 points because Zac skills on his feet are excellent. I guess that's why I feel that the neutral position is so important. Also, watching the best HS & college wrestler has pointed me in that direction.

I stress to my son all the time that you must protect your legs and get a takedown. He does pretty good on the mat but has alot of work to do on his feet. Blue Springs are Oak Park good from the neutral position and I personally do like watching that phase of their wrestling. Haynes is awesome on top and always has been. I'll be following him during his time at Mizzou along with seeing how well Disney does at Minn.

"Another point to make for Duane. It does not help when there is not a good group of 285 in the state with the exception to DISNEY."

I do not agree with the above statement. I believe you can look at all the 285 qualifiers, placers and other state champions in 6A, 5A, 4A and 3-2-1A and you would find a good group of wrestlers. I looked at Intermat's national all class ranking that was done in December of 2007 and Elijah Madison was rated second in the nation, Atticus Disney was ranked 6th and Duane was ranked 13th, Steve Andrus was 14th so that means they are exceptional national ranked wrestlers. If you had said that Duane did not have enough national caliber competition during the year like Elijah, Atticus, and Andrus I could agree with that but I cannot agree that there is not a good group of heavyweights in our state besides Atticus and Duane. Those two are both 3 time state champions and definitely in a class by themselves in Kansas. They are both outstanding athletes and dominant wrestlers. I think they will both also be exceptional athletes in college.

I believe the main difference between Duane and Elijah this year probably has to do with the fact that Elijah has probably done a lot more summer wrestling over the last four years than Duane who has probably concentrated more on his future college and potential professional football career.

Atticus and Elijah have wrestled a few time outside the scholastic season!

At Fargo 2007 in the Greco division

Match #6 Elijah Madison (Missouri) over Atticus Disney (Kansas) Dec 4-0,1-1,2-2

At Fargo 2007 in the Freestyle division

Match #6 Elijah Madison (Missouri) over Atticus Disney (Kansas) Dec 2-0,1-0

Virginia Beach 2007, Junior division

Finally, it was Atticus Disney of Andover Central losing his match to Elijah Madison in the sudden victory round of overtime. The score was 2-3. Atticus wins the silver.

I am looking forward to a rematch in a few weeks!

If everyone takes care of business and wrestles one match at a time!

... also Romero and Haynes!!

All of the Senior National team will be fun to watch!!