I'm just wondering how Kansas does Novice vs Open wrestling; we have an "open" wrestler, but there is some discussion in a neighboring state about changing the "novice" rule again. Do you have a novice division, and if you do....how is it decided that a kid can no longer wrestle novice?

thanks in advance

Joanna,

There have been various "guidelines" that identify Novice wrestlers. They are subjective in a micro sense but obvious on a macro level. If a wrestler wins more than 2 Novice tournaments or wins 1 Open tournament, they should be considered an Open wrestler. The subjectivity comes in with the details. If the tournaments had just a few opponents or there were defaults involved, it could alter the decision.

There will always be exceptions. The gap between Open and Novice can be very wide at particular weights. For the most part, certified Kid's coaches can tell you pretty quickly where your child fits in.

Yes, Kansas does have novice tournaments. I don't know all the rules but I have seen enough Novice tournaments that I think I have it all figured out!!! From what I have seen they are set up to give a few good "open" wrestlers more mat time. These few “open” wrestlers are competitive at the open tournaments, But not quite up to Daddy’s standards. The Novice tournaments give Daddy the satisfaction of seeing JR. dominate a few hapless newcomers, all the while insisting he is only there so JR. can “Work on a few moves”.

Of course this destroys the confidence of the new wrestlers and they never want to wrestle again. But this Is OK because his horrified parents, after seeing their son used as A human play toy wouldn’t let him on the mat again anyway.

All in All it’s a pretty good system. Welcome to Kansas.
NOTE!! This post is saterical, please don't take it literally. The Welcome to Kansas however is sincere.

A narrow view from Steve...

The Novice tournaments are NOT "set up" to give a few open wrestlers more mat time. At each novice tournament you will see a few weights that the winner should be in the open division. The other 90% of the weights are rightly novice wrestlers. It is certainly not a perfect system. We are right to correct those who abuse the system, but being cynical across the board is a weak position that profits nobody. To say "welcome to Kansas", misses the point entirely. Many top states have only one division. As a Kid's division coach, I can assure you that if a Dad insisted on his open level kid wrestling novice, he wouldn't enter under my club.

Chief is right...the system works most of the time. If an open wrestler does get misplaced, usually by mom or dad, the coach usually feels bad enough to not let it happen again. Chief with 2769 posts has a little more credibility, than say someone with 3 posts.

IRONY

• noun (pl. ironies) 1 the expression of meaning through the use of language which normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous effect. 2 a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects.

— ORIGIN Greek eironeia ‘simulated ignorance’

Satirical ?

1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly.

Nice catch!!!

PETTY
pet·ty [ péttee ] (comparative pet·ti·er, superlative pet·ti·est)

Definition:
1. insignificant: of little importance
2. narrow-minded: narrow-minded in nature
3. mean: spiteful in character
4. subordinate: subordinate in rank or importance

UNDERSTATEMENT

1 : to represent as less than is the case.

lol ... what is the meaning of "geez-guys?"

GEEZ

—used as a mild oath or introductory expletive (as to express surprise).

Guy

1. Informal. a man or boy

Joanna, in my experience, the "novice" title gets abused FAR to often. I have been in Steve Earle's world, and heard the exact same things. If there was in fact some sort of guidelines or tracking system for a wrestler's experience/record, this could all be avoided. But, in Kansas, last season there were over 8,000 kids with USA cards. Tracking records for novice/open is not possible. So, it is totally up to the parents/coaches to control this. Unfortunetly, ABUSE of the opportunity for mat time overrules some people's better judgement.

Maybe as more and more tournament directors utilize Trackwrestling it could allow the tracking of novice wrestlers. This could offer good information and might be a beginning to finding a solution to this problem.

This is the coaches responsibility. They are the ones who know where their wrestlers need to compete. Rules or no rules every coach should know if their wrestler should be wrestling on Sunday or Saturday. I have 1st year wrestlers who should not be on the mat with novice wreslters and I have 4th year wrestlers who should only be wrestling on Sunday. Novice is a very broad term and stretches outside the current black and white explaination we are given. Again it falls on my shoulders as a coach to make sure my wrestlers are in the correct division.

Coach Craig Adams
Carroll Jr. Wrestling

so coach craig,

as a coach with integrity, it is your (as a coach) responsibility and I can respect and appreciate that. In my opinion it should be this way. How are the coaches with not so much integrity, who will let an "open" kid wrestle novice just so they can win, handled? are there any consequences to their not playing fair? the whole point is to grow the sport, not beat up the new kids. I'm certainly not picking on anyone, just trying to figure out how the "novice kids" are determined and when they move to "open".

Life is not fair, we are not all winners, and cheaters do win and sometimes get away with it...that is life. Good life lesson to learn. The parents should not have to figure out how novice kids are determined, that is the coaches job. Trust me if a kid looked like a ringer in the novice group, I as a coach would confront the other coach. I know several other coaches that would do the same thing.

In my opinion, and this is strictly coming from someone who has set up and run novice tournaments, I think the coaches should be held accountable. Yes, generally the parents do sign the kids up for the tournaments, but they are coached mat side by a club coach. The tournament directors should also be notified if there is a kid who is appearing too advanced for novice so they can talk to the coaches too. Maybe a little embarrassment would help curb their placement again in another novice tournament. I know I wouldn't have a problem talking to them about it, but then again, I'm not one to keep my mouth shut. A tournament director can also report the incident to the Exec Director and Exec Chair, then it would be on record. I agree the whole point is to grow the sport, and parents and coaches need to remember that. I also agree with the Annette and FJ VanAnne, we use Track Wrestling for our tournament and it is a great tool, so the more it is used the more can be checked to see if "Johnny" placed at a previous novice tournament.

Just my thoughts.......

Amen

I agree that there should be a tracking system in place for this problem. With more tournaments utilizing the trackwrestling program to run the tournaments, there should be some way of setting up a database with each wrestler's record which could be kept with the participants file at the state level. I know that when a child signs up for a wrestling card they are on file at the state level. The number of years of membership should be available upon request by USAW Card Number (not name to protect identity).

Ultimately it is up to the coach to have the integrity to know a wrestler's ability and skill level to help promote the sport for all participants involved. Like what has been said before, all kids mature in the sport at different levels and this is where the coaches need to recognize their wrestler's maturity level in the sport.

This is the main reason Derby started the format of our Novice Championships Tournament for first year wrestlers only. Even here we get those kids who have matured faster than others in the sport, but it seems to at least give the participants as much of a level playing field as they can get in a novice tournament. Having said this, it is always a difficult task scouring through every entry making sure that the entrants are all first year kids. With the current system, the only way to double check that the entrants are first year wrestlers is to check through each tournament's posted results for the last few years. I also have to trust that the parents, club directors and coaches have the integrity to not enter anything but first year wrestlers into the tournament.

Craig Gash
Derby Wrestling Club
Tournament Director