Many of you have read my posts "Yet another out of state team winning a Kansas hosted event." and apparently they are being misunderstood. First off, kudos to those AD's who are inviting those schools because that is the BEST way to make your tournament tougher at this point in time. (Yes, Greg Mann, I am agreeing with you!) If you can't travel then invite them in! My point is that WE, Kansas wrestlers, are falling behind during the HS folkstyle season. Everyone is always asking for data and facts to support this so I am pointing it out. Clear evidence that wrestling is on the decline at the HS level in our state. Numbers are down, rosters are not full, kids qualify for state without winning a match, etc. Times have changed and the rules we have regulating our sport are out of date. They are WAY out of date and many of you sit back and state "Change takes time." Each of you should be looking for ways to increase numbers but making the sport more attractive and opening up avenues to get coaches and kids better. Each of you should be looking for ways to RAISE THE BAR, not leave it where it is or lower it so we can have a level playing field. You can't use Senior Nationals or Fargo as a measuring stick because WE, Kansas, will always have the few who seek to overcome the obstacles, constraints, and oppression.

Mr. Ryan, Mr. Lamar, and others seek to discredit my efforts and my passion. Mr. Ryan, I think it is awesome that they awarded the OW to a competitor with Downs Syndrome. At least some thought was put into that. Why would you think I would have a problem with that?

Mr. Lamar stated that I have done nothing to help wrestling in this state out only posting rants. I hope you have figured out how wrong you are.

I am not moving. I have a lot invested in KANSAS and there is NOTHING wrong with trying to make wrestling better. In fact there is something VERY WRONG with those of you who don't think you should try to make things better. Some of my comments polarize but all of them are meant to stir up the silent majority and make something happen. For three months a year everyone reads these posts, attends a few tournaments and then after HS state the majority hibernates. Lets change that starting now.

Allow kids to go to clinics during the season. Abolish the 500 mile from the border travel limit, free up video taping, allow coaches to coach year round, allow wrestlers to compete independently in outside events, get rid of dead week, give the two pound allowance immediately after Christmas, etc. Think outside the box and look for ways to improve.

There is a poll on kansaswrestling.org and it asks for you to vote for the toughest tournament in Kansas. VOTE!!

Relax, take a deep breath, and then go back and read some previous posts! The young man from Wamego named MOW at the Tri State Tournament in Sabetha does not have Downs Syndrome. Coach Brown Was referring to another young man he had in middle school that wrestled for him. Your speed reading ran everything togeher!

I don't have a problem with giving the award to anyone when the coaches have put some thought into it and give it out for a good reason. I am sure he was well deserving for the reasons they chose. I have no idea why Ryan thought I would have a problem with it. It definitely seems they were promoting character in our sport. My apologies to Nick as well as my congratulations.

Will,

A question being asked in all in all seriousness:

Have you given any thought/consideration to spearheading and/or organizing a tournament in the KC area; the focus of which would be to attract the kinds of teams you would like to see Kansas teams be able to travel to? Attracting quality out-of-state teams to the Johnson County area would be much easier than attracting them to the, say, Norton County area.

You obviously have good organizational skills, an extremely high degree of tournament wrestling knowledge and are well known (some might say infamous) in mid-western USA wrestling circles. Just wondering if a project such as this could be a possibility in the future.

Mann

It already exists in Missouri...Unfortunately the date conflicts with the Johnson County Classic and if you look at the schedule the best weekend to create such a tournament would be January 24th to host a like tournament in Kansas. This would conflict with Blue Valley Northwest which is a high quality tournament of in state competition. Sadly, Kansas has a venue problem. There isn't a Kansas City metro area facility in Kansas which could host 32 teams.

There is still openings for two more teams. The tournament is an individual tournament held on December 19th and 20th, 2008 at the KCI Expo Center in Kansas City, MO. We are committed to a format that allows each wrestler to get as many matches as possible. We anticipate every wrestler to get between 5 and 8 matches.

The 2007 tournament included approximately 142 state qualifiers, 83 state medalists and 33 state champions in the field. This also includes at least 9 Fargo All Americans. Of the 33 state champions there was 9 2 time state champs and 5 three time state champs. The 145 pound weight class consisted of 7 state champions and 130 pounds had 3 three time state champions competing. Several matches pitted nationally ranked wrestlers against each other. Most weight classes featured some nationally ranked individuals. These were the accomplishments of the wrestlers prior to the 2007 Tournament. The tournament has now expanded to include more teams and will be even tougher.

Here are the accomplishments of the teams/wrestlers that were in the tournament last year.
There was 4 team State Champion 14 State Trophies out 24 teems
There was
39 State Champions
24 State Runner-ups
and 59 State Placers placers (122 Total Placers 8.7 Placers per weight Class)
there was 14 nationally ranked wrestlers (Intermat wrestle) 38 Nationally Ranked Wrestlers (Wrestling USA)
and 18 Fargo All-Americans

If you are interested in a slot in the tournament or require additional information contact Tom Taulbee @ kansascitywrestlingassoc@yahoo.com or 816-582-5417.

There is an old saying:
"Those who say it can't be done should not interfere with those of us that are doing it."

If I remember correctly, and that is a stretch, Last year Hutch and Ark City and Manhattan participated in this event. Any Kansas schools attending this year?

Will, First of all I would like to apologize for part of my comments. I have since learned that you are much more involved in helping area kids than I realized. I applaud that and I appreciate that. As do all that spend their lives helping kids. I was wrong!
I should have researched a little more before sounding off. And I sincerly apologize!

On the other matters. Get things changed! Quit blaming others for not getting it done. Get them changed yourself. You will
get plenty of help if you go about it the proper way. You act like it is easy to changing existing rules. Send them a letter and it will happen. That is not the case. It is very similar to getting a law changed in society, it takes time and commitment.

You have stated that wrestling has not changed in 30 years. When I was a senior 30 years ago I had 15 matches going into regional, few people finished the year with 20 matches. Stalling was never called, there was no tech fall, we had to suffer all day and make weight 30 minutes before we wrestled, we could not be coached in the summer, weight classes made no sense at all, kids tournaments lasted until 2 or 3 in morning and there were only a 1 or 2 each weekend in the state, plus we got to where sexy tights that buttoned in the crotch. And I am sure that I have forgotten many other changes that have occurred in the past 30 years. Changes that many people have worked hard to change for the better of the sports. The top coaches always recruit kids, go to their homes, talk to them in the halls, call them and try to get them out. The top coaches all attempt to get rules changed. They start with their leagues, then work to their regional, then their state, then the KWCA then the KSHSAA. Which takes TIME! Time spent organining, planning, formulating, polling then proving that a majority of coaches and administrators will buy into the change. Then you have to sell it to the Executive Board which is mostly made up of 200 some administrators that do not understand wrestling. Then there is a change of policy. In summary, get out of your lazy boy and get things changed! We will all appreciate it! I will yak at you at Basehor.

The meeting of the minds. I have much respect for both you guys (Harry and Will) and we need to all get together and find new ways to fight the oppression that KSHSAA has put on our people of wrestling. But I am telling you we might just have to wait till the old farts die off. The don't see, they don't care, and they never will. Big fish in the little pond and little brain in a big head. I have grown weary of the fight but I feel a second wind acoming. Keep me informed and let me know what I can do. See you all at the Bobcat!

Tom Peterman

Great discussion and views coming from all sides. Coach LaMar, I think Will is dedicated to this change over the long haul and that is why he is using this forum to try and drum up some support for it. His remarks may come off as bold and/or crass to some, but when thoroughly examined, it is often the truth; the blunt truth.

I understand your views on things changing. Wrestling has changed A TON since I began in 1995. Back then, 10 and unders had no idea what freestyle/greco was and only the most elite high school guys wore the old pink national team singlets. Tulsa Nationals was THE national tournament to attend. Western Kansas was by far seen as king of the state. Now, there are 6 and unders getting involved in freestyle/greco, it's almost a co-requisite to being able to place high at high school state anymore, the USA national series far overshadows anything that is going on down in Tulsa anymore (in large thanks to Kansas hosting the Kids Folkstyle nationals for many years). And finally, no one can decide (some claim they can) where the powerhouse area of KS wrestling is located.

I guess all I am trying to say is things do change, but at a faster pace now then 30 years, 10, 5, even 1 year ago. I can almost guarantee that Will is not just typing away on here, but he is actively writing letters to the KSHSAA and others, talking to coaches at meets, parents at meets and on the phone, referees, wrestlers, fans, everyone. With all the available media, these talk forums are just another outlet for reform.

Midwest Classic - KCI
1. Oak Park - River Forrest, IL 4.0
2. Park Hill, MO 4.0
3. Ponca City, OK 4.0
4. Althoff Catholic, IL 0.0
5. Blue Springs, MO 0.0
6. Canyon Randall, TX 0.0
7. Centralia, MO 0.0
8. Collins Hill, GA 0.0
9. Creston, IA 0.0
10. Cushing, OK 0.0
11. Del City, OK 0.0
12. Excelsior Springs, MO 0.0
13. Farmington, MO 0.0
14. Ft. Zumwalt West, MO 0.0
15. Goddard, KS 0.0
16. Granite City, IL 0.0
17. Hayfield, VA 0.0
18. Holt, MO 0.0
19. Kearney, MO 0.0
20. Keller, TX 0.0
21. Klein Oak, TX 0.0
22. Langley, VA 0.0
23. Neosho, MO 0.0
24. Norman North, OK 0.0
25. Oak Grove, MO 0.0
26. Oak Park, MO 0.0
27. Omaha Skutt Catholic, NE 0.0
28. Park Hill South, MO 0.0
29. Perry, OK 0.0
30. Platte County, MO 0.0
31. Seckman, MO 0.0
32. Tuttle, OK 0.0

These are the teams participating this weekend. It appears that Goddard is the only Kansas school competing. Good luck to them. I sure wish we were wrestling there! It is the BEST tournament available within the KSHSAA travel limits.

Are the results available online somewhere?

For the sake of the kids, and to reiterate Bronco's statements, I pray to our Good Lord that no kid has to face the "two and barbecue" gauntlet. I guess we can get them counseling if they do.
Soon you'll be hearing him calling for a lawsuit asking why the kids that lose their first two matches don't get the same amount of mat time as the guys that wrestle thru to the finals, as they all paid the same entry fee, didn't they?

The tournament is on Trackwrestling. I wish all of the Kansas HS events would use that tool too but many would not want their kids/wrestlers exposed to worldwide searchers on the internet. Flowrestling is covering this tournament as well. Apparently Missouri doesn't restrict the video taping of wrestling matches so they will be on the internet for viewing. This tournament starts tomorrow.

As for 0-2 BBQ at the airport tournament they wrestle EVERY place out so it would be 0-8 BBQ.
Seriously though after the pools they put the top 1/3 in a gold bracket and the middle 1/3 in a silver bracket, and the bottom 1/3 in a bronze bracket so all the kids should have as decent a chance as the local tournaments to have a "good" experience. That is probably what make this tournament one of the best. It has the very top end but also a place for the less advanced.

24/7

That sounds good.

Bronco wants to make it sound like we are all "against" the average wrestler. I want every wrestler to have the opportunity to advance his game, including the elite. I don't want the elite to wait on my kids to get better.

No I am not trying to make it sound like you are all against the "average" wrestler. I am trying to make a point if you don't like being restricted by the KSHSAA then leave the organization. All you guys talk about is if they have the means they should be allowed to do what they want. If that was the case the larger schools could all travel when they pleased as they have a larger budget anyway, which makes no sense in its own again. If you want your chance to wrestle the studs outside of Kansas, make the state finals and then fly to Virginia Beach or wherever for Senior Nationals and go head to head with them. You can even attend Brute Adidas Nationals right after the season too if you wish.

All I have gathered from reading the past few is that you few people are trying to better Kansas as a State, but at what cost? We should allow unlimited travel outside our boundaries for what? Colby apparently has the means to travel as they went to Texas a few years ago for the LoneStar Duals but they haven't gone back since, why? They apparently don't feel the need to, they must be getting the competition they want around Colby. I'm sorry you feel your team is so much better or whoever, that they must travel to find the best competition because apparently Kansas can't provide it. If that's really not what you're getting at please do tell me exactly what your point is.

Don't say you're trying to get Kansas more national attention, it's already been done, our national post season results speak for themselves and the wrestlers we currently have representing us at the Division I & II levels. You're trying to better the state by removing the travel restrictions why? because apparently we've done great without the removal of the ban.

The easiest way to make Kansas kids better is to hire better coaches, attend camps in the off season, and get as much mat time as possible. Traveling to one tournament a year isn't going to make them any better. It's the extra effort put forth by them in the off season that will pay bigger dividends.

If you can show me where traveling to one large tournament a year will make the state a better place, I will concede defeat and will never post in the High School section again. I want hard facts & numbers not just opinions.

I think Will has many valid points. Instead of complaining about him and his manner of trying to get change accomplished, maybe lets do something like stand behind him. Any restrictions we can get removed allow us as a state to do more and be more competitive. Whether it is allowing coaches to coach year around or the high schools travel where ever they choose, anything that is not detrimental should be allowed.

Ray Greig

OK read for a couple days bla bla bla. It isn't all about the Big vs Little vs Have vs Have Nots. I live in a small community and would coach my kids if I could. Many of them don't wrestle freestyle and greco because we can't afford to drive to the city and practice. I talked a kid into comming down 1 night a week last year and working with my kids. We don't have the population that presents multiple opportunities. A few of us are it. We are already involved at the high school level so we can't have contact with anybody 8th grade or above during the school year outside of season. Yet a kid in the city can drive 10 minutes and get coached by Aikin. KSHSAA rules. Where is the harm or foul if myself and my coaching staff are willing to take time away from our families and work with kids in the community?? Why is that an advantage? Why should I be penalized. I want to freaking win. My kids want to win. The KSHSAA has some stupid rules. Open it up and allow those that want to do it, to do it. Those that don't don't. Think at Prairie View I am going to tell a kid who didn't wrestle all summer that he can't come out. NO. I want to fill my team. I have had all types of kids on my team. Even one who I am most proud of that still calls me every Wednesday. He is Autistic and he won 20 matches during high school. I have coached all kinds of kids. We don't discriminate. But if things were freed up, we would be a helluva lot better. We don't have the resources that the cities do. Yet the powers that be restrict us? Why???

Don't you dare imply that allowing the high school coaches to help out with the youth wrestling, whether it be during or after the season, would be a positive for us!!! Bronco would complain that the schools with bad coaches would ruin the kids programs in that town.

Like someone said above, if someone can prove that traveling where we want, will hurt the state of wrestling, then keep it as is. It wouldn't hurt, would only help, so remove the restriction. We are not saying that you HAVE to travel. There are HS programs in this state that do not NEED to travel to find competition that will push their kids. But there are also programs that have kids that walk thru their brackets, and that does not do them any good, so let them go to a tourney that will push them, and also, as a side benefit, give them some exposure.

Bronco,

Did you get that name because a horse kicked you in the head? You must not be reading all of my posts or you would understand the axe I have to grind. Do you know how the KSHSAA is funded? It is created by and funded by the member schools. The by-in-large majority of those schools are public schools. Public schools are funded by tax dollars. Yours and mine. I am pretty sure a lot more of mine, by the way. I think it is clearly taxation without representation when I cannot go before KSHSAA myself and propose changes or promote change or say anything. Their change process is a maze that few if any changes will ever be able to navigate. MY MONEY is paying for this and it is upsetting. By sending Ryne to SJA I did give him an advantage that is within the rules because it is a private school. That was in my control. And guess what, every time one of us sends a kid to a private school the public school gains! The public schools still gets my tax dollars while I pay a premium for a better education. On top of that it is one less student for the public schools to educate so they get a better quality teacher to student ratio. I get nothing in return. No tax reduction, no tax credit, no write off, a big fat nothing.

Obviously you are some kind of puss or something because your solution to a problem is to quit or run from it. I want to spur improvement. It is a darn good thing that there are more people wanting to improve things than leave them the same like you want to or our country would suck! You support socialistic practices so I suggest you go visit Russia and see what you get when socialism rules. You jump all over me without even knowing what I have praised, who I have helped, or anything other than read my opinions on things I want changed.

Talk to my son sometime and ask him why he wants to go to Ironman, Beast of the East or RTOC. Talk to who the rule REALLY impacts and see why we need change instead of sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is ok.