I read this article when it first came out last week. I enjoyed reading it. It is consistent with the comments that I have made about the program on Eric Johnson's All Class topic two days ago and to Will in a private e-mail yesterday.

As the article points out, I think St. James is a fine program. It is coached by Mike Medina a man that I have the utmost respect for both as a person and a coach. I think they have two of the very best wrestlers in Kansas in Ryne Cokeley and Taylor Moeder. I also think St. James is a program on the rise as all of your wrestlers this year are competing at a higher level now than in the program's first couple of years of existence (I believe St. James is only in your 4th year of existence as a school). I believe their first year that St. James competed on a regular basis in varsity competition was just 3 years ago with their highest grade class in the school at that time being only sophomores. At that time I do not believe that they had many wrestlers who had wrestling experience before high school.

Mike has done an outstanding job coaching and preparing all the kids not just Ryne and Taylor into becoming competitive varsity wrestlers. It is also obvious that all the wrestlers in the program are working very hard in becoming good wrestlers. Like I said yesterday I think St. James is definitely a program on the rise. I want to congratulate Mike, the wrestlers and their families for working so hard for the success that you are achieving and I wish you all the best of luck in the future.

On Eric Johnson's thread about his All Class rankings I have had to make some comments that the St. James wrestling family might take exception to. Basically I am saying that I don't think that St. James is at this time the 9th best team in Kansas. One of the main reasons I am making that statement is that you only finish 11th out of 20 teams at the Johnson County Classic and 11th out of 18 at Derby last weekend. I think that those are both very good showings for a program at such an early stage of existence but I honestly do not believe that it translates into currently the 9th best team in Kansas. I do believe though that your program is headed in that direction. I forsee team state titles in your future.

My reasons for making these statements in the All Class topic is not to be belittling your program but solely to point out to Eric Johnson that his change in method of ranking teams in Kansas is incorrect and misleading in my opinion. I think it is important to point out to Eric when his rankings are incorrect or misleading because a lot of young wrestlers read his rankings and seem to think they are gospel and not just one man's opinion. So I apologize to anyone in the St. James wrestling community over the posts that I have made concerning Eric's current rating of St. James as a team. I think you are a very good team and all of you are doing a great job. I wish all of you and your program the greatest success the remainder of this year and in the future.

Vince,

An e-mail was sent to you about bracket scoring and your JOCO comparison.

"I just don't see St. James as being legimately ranked over teams like Gardner Edgerton who demolished them and Aquinas at the Classic".

Here is how:

112: Taylor Moeder places 2nd.
119: Tyler Stokes places 2nd.
130: Ryne Cokeley places 2nd.
152: Todd Curtis places 6th.
171: Greg Curtis places 6th.

Every other placer for GE at JOCO does not qualify for Grand State. A narrow point victory for SJA over GE.

Eric in your grand state wrestling tournament you would take the top 4 from each of the state tournaments. So rank 16 kids in each weight and remember that 12 kids are going to score points at each weight. That would have to factor in to your team rankings.

It did factor in and they didn't score over 40 points.

St. James is the best team money can buy. If Cokeley were to build a small motel in his back yard, maybe he could get some more western kansas kids to "move" to our area and get them on the wrestling team. Just goes to show you the difference between public and private. Any other public school wrestling coach shows up at a meet with that many transfers and "move" ins, and the state is all over them for recruiting. Private school is just business as usual. Sounds like the basketball coach at St. James has been out hitting the bricks in recruiting, probably just a matter of time until football does as well. By the way, if St. James gets any team trophy's in wrestling, do they share them with Colby and Aquinas?

Like or dislike what Will has done for St. James and thier coach it is a free world. I happen to be a good friend of the Moeder's and know Cokley somewhat. I would be crazy to say I'm glad Taylor is at St. James because he would be a great asset to Colby's team. That was the choice Taylor and his family made for wrestling as well as other reasons. I'll continue to support Taylor where ever he is wrestling this season. He has been a friend of my sons and the rest of my family. Tim & Shelly are great people I wish them well in what ever choice's they make. We all must remember to be positive in young men's lives as wrestling is sometimes a small part of it. And no they don't have to share thier trophy, I hope they earn there own right behind Colby's (I had to throw that in Tim & Will). Tim, thanks for everything you have done for Colby wrestling throught out the years. Good Luck Taylor The Arnbergers-Colby

I had not seen or heard of the noted article until this thread. It's a nice article which I would have rather seen on my own and not on the website, but thats beside the point that I would like to address.
Octagon - If you have an opinion or your own theory about why my son is at SJA that is fine and I dont mind you stating it. If you would like to know a complete explanation, please email me and I will further explain it to you, however I will not do so on this website.
What amazes me is that you had to start a NEW registration in order to make those comments. You obviously have no self sense of pride or self respect. We knew that there would be comments/accusations/some hard feelings, etc.. when we came to SJA. We made a family decision and stuck with it. As far as Colby, I have only heard of one or two of the wrestling community that has been negative toward our move, the rest of the wrestling community has been very supportive and we are in continuous contact with eachother.
If you beleive that my son will progress academically, score better on the ACT and achieve a better academic scholarship at your school as opposed to SJA, please contact me - that is my biggest concern. We can always find opportunities to improve in wrestling, however that is pointless if an injury ends your athletic career. We were on the edge of that decision by a physician this summer, so we know first hand that it is always a possibility.
It still however simply makes me laugh that you had to start a new registration. Grow some dude, if you have a comment - state it, but have some self respect in doing it and not by doing it in "hiding".

Reread the post Mr. Moeder. You can move your son anywhere you want. I have no problem with you doing what you are for your family. The point is that there is not a level playing field between the public and the private schools. The private schools have many more advantages because they don't have to follow the same rules as the rest of us, yet during competitions we do. If you have money, then you can get whatever you want wherever you want. The families who do not have the financial ability to put their kid in a private school and have to rely on the public system is not getting the same opportunities. It is the haves v. the have nots. As to the new registration, how does that change what I have said. Just because I'm new to the board doesn't mean that what I have to say is less valid. You private school people love to rant and rave about how restrictive the state is in regard to holding kids back, but the state needs to be more restrictive so that the entire system stays fair for all. If it were up to me, we would be like texas and have all the private schools form their own association and then you can do whatever you want and it won't affect the public schools. When we have that, then you won't have people like me telling you what I think, because we won't be competing against one another.

I read the post multiple times and in my opinion I easily and accurately understood what you were implying.
Level playing field? I have followed wrestling for a day or two and it seems to me the public schools are doing just fine with the competition. I dont recall being in Colby's PUBLIC system and ever once giving a single thought to how PRIVATE schools had it better than we did.
If you have money? In our case, it was how we decided to PRIORATIZE the money we have. That was our decision. I dont have any problem how you spend yours, whether you spend it on cigarettes, bowling, flying planes, new car, etc.. Ours is being spent where we prioratized it. We just will do without lots of other things, simple as that.
Any comment holds validity whether its your 1st or your 100th and I dont beleive I stated any differently, except you are not NEW to the wrestling board or you wouldnt be talking about other posts that have been made in the past. Also, it is (IMO) obvious that your newly registered login was simply to voice on this topic. My opinion stays the same.
I guess I still look at a highschool as a highschool as compared to public vs private. I dont expect anything different now that we are at SJA as compared to Colby, and likewise will not act or speak any differently than I did when my son went to a "PUBLIC" school either. I will have just as much pride as I did in Colby and will always post my name and make my email evailable as well, especially if I am pointing fingers at someone.
(Additionally, I guess you arent aware of it since you are "NEW" to the board, but the restriction issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with private vs public. The release of the travel restriction is supported by many in both school designations with the idea of improving our competitors.)

Octagon,
Tim's point is you have a name. If you want to be taken seriously then use it!

Fair is where you buy cotton candy. Quit being a whiner and figure out how to improve things. The problem is that too many people work on "making things fair" instead of making themselves better. Goddard is a public school and look at the move ins and fifth year seniors that are in their line up. They figured out a way and they are the best team in the state. Why aren't you calling them out? Life is about choices and some make better than others.

SJA didn't recruit the Moeder's and the Cokeleys are not paying for any kids to go there. In fact, the Cokeleys are giving the public schools a huge chunk of their money as well as paying for private school. You get a better educational situation because my son goes to a private school which I pay for and it is not tax deductible but you want to bitch about it? You are an idiot! (Let me define that for you. One who wants things to get better but doesn't change what he is doing.)

I am really not sure what advantage you think SJA has but I don't see it. Please elaborate!!! It costs $7,000 a year to go there so I see that as a distinct disadvantage! If it didn't cost that much I would put together a line up that would make your head spin! I am certainly glad it isn't up to you and I wish you were a man so we could meet in The Octagon! I like to rant a little but I would love to kick your butt for distracting what was supposed be just a post to allow access to an article.

Tim: I wouldn't waste my time trying to explain anything to this guy! Frankly it's none of his business, I applaud you for taking the initiative to do what's best for yourself and your family. I wish your family the best in your new adventure and welcome to Eastern KS!

John

Octagon's comments are so factually incorrect and biased that they do not merit a reply. However, if he or anyone else disagrees, they can at least know who I am and contact me.

Tom Williams
wilgt@msn.com

I rarely post here, usually because I feel my knowledge of wrestling is far below any of yours, so I just read and try to learn from you all. I am this time because I truly enjoyed reading the SJA article and I really hope that other schools, both private and public, can see this article and use themselves some of what SJA has done to build their program, simply because of the benefits that I have personally seen from the sport of wrestling, (for example, personal discipline, confidence in self, fitness, nutrition, to mention just a few).

In saying this I think we have to be very careful not to fling accusations or words around because we simply do not have enough knowledge of the surrounding facts to do this. Doing this is hurtful, sounds spiteful and petty and does not benefit the kids or the sport. My son has wrestled against Taylor and attended camps with him. Taylor is first, a great kid, an asset to ANY program, and will have a future after wrestling. The SJA community appears to work hard with and for the kids' programs and I imagine Will is right in there with the rest of them working hard for the programs in the school. However, most of you probably do not know, but Will also has helped kids clear out in southwestern Kansas who are wrestlers, offering them a place to stay and work out and rides. Will has done this to help them develop into better wrestlers and to allow them to forge friendships. This would in no way benefit the SJA program, so I think we have to be really really careful about making implications about improper behavior or groundless accusations. Here, we have a group called the Sports Boosters. We try to help all athletic teams in the school with expenses or equipment needs as they are presented to us. We hold countless fundraisers each year and have meetings (with lots of record keeping!) It’s a lot of work, but worth it for the kids….my point being, if there are some things your school is in need of, there are usually ways of funding it, it just takes some ingenuity and time.

Lets face it people move for a variety of reasons......they buy homes in certain school districts........this one's academic record is better, that one's basketball team goes to state every year.....the next one has a great music program.....I think you see what I mean. Remember this is supposed to be a positive avenue for information and comments, so let’s be careful, a lot of young men read this site too. The initial post here was to give access to those of us trying to learn how to build and start a program some ideas from how someone else did it……..that is always a good thing. This being said, I know there is always some frustration, but we are all here hopefully to do one thing….make a positive difference in the lives of the kids (borrowed from Randy..ty). Thanks for all your help and tolerance throughout these years!

Thea Schnittker
tschnitt@pld.com

Class warfare. You and your buddies, Obama, Harry Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc. love to play that game.

If you people would spend as much time worrying about bettering your own life, school, wrestling program, etc., as you do worrying about someone else making good things happen at theirs, you would be a lot better off. That was a run-on sentence. Perhaps I should go to a private school to learn better grammar. Naaa, don't want to be chastised by octagon......

I agree with Thea. Will has a long history with my son's wrestling club and has always been the first to help with anything having to do with the sport. Many people lacking resources have benefitted from his assistance. As a parent, I feel it is my responsibility to make the best decisions possible to help ensure a successful future for my child. I applaud the Moeders for their initiative as well as the Colby members who support them. That is a true sign of what is important; the future of each individual child.

I agree but of course it should work both ways. Calling names on a messageboard, be it "communist", "socialist", "idiot", or the all-time classic "retard" (those are a few that come to mind), should be frowned on as well!


If you are a wrestling fan first and foremost which most on this board likely are, you should make sure your efforts and funds are funneled directly towards the wrestling programs in the high school or middle school. Otherwise, you will find the better part of your time and money being used on other sports.

I am guilty of the aforementioned crime! Give me the death penalty for name calling! WHATEVER, Greg! I will make you a deal. You admit to everyone that you are Greg Boucher and I will not call anyone a "special name" any more. Deal?

When you hide behind an alias it is open season on name calling. If Octagon would have had a real name, like Greg Boucher, then we could have addressed him by that instead of more appropriate aliases like "idiot" or my all time favorite "sportszero". Don't you believe that sticks and stones may break your bones but names will never hurt you? A little name calling can be fun but when you are accusing a school of cheating or an individual of transgressing the rules, that is serious.



Greg, I commend you on this comment. You are exactly right! This should also be a caveat to those clubs and organizations that donate funds to a university or community college wrestling program. Make sure the funds get into the right hands.

Actually the rules of this forum don't dictate what you can or can't say in a negative fashion towards another person, or program, it just states that if you do so you must use your name. I have seen several posts now where the poster refuses to do this. Will, and/or any other can say idot, stupid, ignorant, or whatever they want, as long as they use their name, Will does that, it is one reason I personally respect him. Then again, those who claim to do all they do, we will never really know how much they really know because they don't let us know who they are, that says something there. If you want to use an alias to praise, have fun, whatever, fine, I don't care, but if you want to use an alias to be critical, either cowboy up or get off the bull!