I've tried to make a couple of changes to this thread!

Posting entries a week and a half early as they come in??? Are you kidding me? Salina, one of the best tournaments of the year, continues to conduct themselves with class. As I have said in the past, great tournament do certain things enhancing the experience and Salina is a perfect example of a great tournament.

I will never understand why more clubs don’t emulate great tournaments like Salina. Thanks Salina for all you do!

I have to second Jeff's comments!! This tournament is an AWESOME experience! Great job Salina - hopefully all coaches and fans can control their actions, tempers and attitudes this year and have another great tournament!! Let's remember it's for the kids! I hope that everyone involved uses their love for this sport to encourage their child and build up their spirit and self-esteem!!

I guess I'm missing the importance of posting the entries a week or more in advance?

And officials, don't forget the officials!

Greg, there are definitely two sides to this, those that will say it doesn’t matter your wrestler will have to wrestle them anyway. While this is true and I will never disagree with it, by knowing who is in your wrestler’s bracket allows for some early preparation. For example, if I know there will be a head hunter in his bracket, we will spend a little extra time in practice focusing on this! In addition, by disclosing the entries early provides time for corrections of honest errors and thus eliminating the discussions that morning along with the associated delays! How could either of these benefits be bad??

That's what I was afraid of. This has the potential of being bad because some over zealous parent will take their kid down in the basement and watch tape or drill them all week prior, in addition to their regular club practices. Now I realize we can't protect all these kids from their parents but it is always a concern of mine.
My other lesser concern is that some parents will take to head hunting themselves and enter more than one tournament per weekend in the hopes of either going to the tournament that offers the best chance for a medal or the other extreme, the toughest competition. That would be a diservice to the other entrants and the host club one way or the other.
Any corrections can be made in plenty of time by the club directors within hours of bracketing.

At what point do we get back to wrestling at the youth level being fun, first and foremost?

"At what point do we get back to wrestling at the youth level being fun, first and foremost?"

Who said youth wrestling was suppose to be fun?

What parent or coach would spend extra time with their child to help them be better or more successful at something they love to do? Whether it be sports, school, or a hobby, I am so thankful I have the opportunity to spend that extra time with my son. If you see the negatives in this then its time to look in the mirror. Maybe you aren't doing it right. Nope, no maybe, if you see extra time to help someone as a negative then you are the wrong person to help people.

First of all what I said is that we would work on these potential area in “practice” not in the basement. With that said I see nothing wrong with competitors doing extra things outside of their practice room/field/court etc. to better themselves. For a lot of competitors the fun still exist. Now are there exceptions to this? Absolutely. Regardless of our efforts and guidance the crazy parent that drives the competitor to the limit and then over will still exist. I understand your stance on having fun first and foremost and I agree but keep in mind fun comes in a lot of different ways. Even winning brings smiles to the wrestler’s face, correct? If your answer is no then would you also be in favor of doing away with keeping score? If your answer is yes, then why is preparing to win so bad? Why do kids attend practice, work hard, think smart, etc etc?

With regards to your second point, parents head hunting themselves and more specifically finding the toughest competition and the resulting disservice to the other entrants. I know of no studs that would be upset with someone entering the tournament they are attending so they can wrestle! These are the same kids wanting to better themselves and would welcome the opportunity to wrestle.

As far as the corrections being made that morning. Any avoidable work the tournament director has to do that morning has the possibility of delaying the start. Look around, it is far too common as it is.

Just out of curiosity Greg, what are your answers to the following questions?

Do you believe in National Tournaments and the level of competition provided?
Do you attend practice to get better?
Do you think kids can do what it takes to improve while having fun?


Finally, my original post was to recognize Salina’s efforts. Posting entries is just one of the many areas I believe they excel. Great Job Salina, we are looking forward to the 31st!

Well said!!!!!

I see nothing wrong with that either. When I was growing up my passions were for baseball and that other winter sport and you would have found me along with friends playing those at all hours of the day and all times of the year. The difference in my mind is, the times we played (practiced) was totally up to us and based on our love of the game. It was not decided by a parent or coach who decided we needed more practice in order to improve our game.

I hope that is true, but for whatever reason we are seeing less competitors and IMO it has to do with the sport not being as much fun as it once was.

In many cases it does but we also see many very successful wrestlers give up the sport before they get to high school. So I have to conclude that in many instances, winning isn't everything.

Well if it was the "studs" doing the actual entering of the tournament in question, I would say that might be true. I think in many cases kids like what they know pleases the old man or the mother and that's fine too but again the "stud" is not the one making the decisions.

Corrections are always going to cause delays and sadly the use of Trackwrestling in it's current form only increases that. Look at where we are at, some people are now asking for an honor system on weight but we recently had to implement a manditory birth certificate rule due to us not being able to trust coaches and parents? We will get the Trackwrestling problems worked out but it won't be soon and till then we should not be holding up tournaments. The delays as you say are far too common and we will lose far too many parents and wrestlers due to them if we don't stop.

1. Yes, for those wrestlers of national caliber.
2. No, but then I'm not a wrestler. I want my wrestler to attend practice as I said first and foremost because it's fun.
3. I hope so, but then again, that is for the kids to decide and not me.

I don't think you saw the point. Sometimes the coaches know what they are talking about. They know when a extra work on a position might help the athlete be successful.

As an example this also occurs in other areas: I probably average having a student in my classroom to work on reading or math 2 times a week after school. Its usually not their choice, I call their parents and tell them its something they need to do.

If one of our coaches told my son he needed to stay and work on something I would be glad they took an interest in him.

I also don't think wrestlers get burnt out, they get beat out. That sometimes occurs when the change from athleticism to hard work and discipline starts to win matches. That usually seems to happen around high school age if the wrestler is staying in state or if the wrestler is trying the national tournaments it starts earlier. Don't confuse burnt out with beat out.

We review film on the day after he wrestles while its still fresh and we review film on Fri. night to remind him of things we talked about earlier in the week. Any other time he says,"hey Dad wanna watch some wrestling?", guess what? Yep, we review some film. We don't watch it in the basement tho. Its much more fun on the big plasma over the fireplace.

My point is all kids are different, what works for one may not be as enjoyable for others. Its just nice to see who is gonna be there. We choose where we go based on logistics and how long it has been since we have visited a particular part of the state.

Salina is always one we look forward to attending, we consider it kind of a "mini" state tourny. You guys have always done a great job. Look forward to many more trips your way.

Any time we start putting a sport on the same level as math or other studies we are heading down the wrong path. Without a doubt some kids will balk at what is required of them in the classroom and there they should have no choice. Well unless we are talking about algebra, we all know they will never need that.

They quit for a variety of reasons and it is far more common for the parents to get burned out at the younger ages due to tournaments running too long and not starting on time IMO.

A few things came to my mind when I was reading these comments on this subject.

First, this will be the first year my son has wrestled at the Salina Tournament of Champions. Although he has been a pretty good wrestler over the years, we have always wrestled somewhere closer to home (and somewhere I felt he could compete without taking a pounding). Don't get me wrong, he has wrestled numerous matches against kids who have won State multiple times and he has never backed down from the competition.

Second, I also think that it is great to see who is going to be wrestling at an upcoming tournament ahead of time. At this point, we rarely do anything extra as far as drilling harder on certain moves to try to beat or counter an opponent. We do talk about who will be there and how good they are. I think it helps him be better prepared mentally for the challenges he faces that weekend.

Third, I love watching tapes of my son's matches and analyzing the stuffing out of them. Whereas I could watch (and analyze) these tapes for hours, I am lucky to get him to watch them one time before he is ready to move on to something that peaks his interest a little more.

All of this being said, we look forward to making our first appearance in Salina. I am sure that it will be an excellent experience for both of us.

You don't think students need to be able to understand and use algebra? Now I know why you don't get the point of my posts. You were in the general math classes weren't you. Find me in Salina I will find a way to explain this on your level.

sports fan stop for a second and ask your kid 1 question. how much fun is it to lose? how much fun is it to wrestle a head hunter? i agree with you 100% on fun, we played pick up games of baseball and football 365 days a year, and learned alot doing it. even though it was all in fun, we were still preparing ourselves. however when you are going to compete, you have to prepare for your competition. tell me you never told the pitcher in a pick up game to throw harder or slower depending on the kid you were facing that week? as a parent or coach is helping an athlete by scouting, and preparing to compete, they are TEACHING, they are starting good habits of PREPERATION that will affect everything that young person does in life. when you were in school, who did best? the kids who "just show up" or the kids who prepared? who is more successful at your job? the guys who just "come and go", or the people who plan, and schedule their day? it can still be fun, and must be made to be fun by the parent or coach. stop and look around, if it wasn't fun do you think so many kids would be doing it? lastly ask yourself if you are truly, for the kids, trying to better the sport? or are you just trying to belittle, and stir up some controversy? before you answer, prepare yourself, because it is sometimes very difficult to be honest. if you are truly trying to better the kids, sports don't stop here at the forums, don't skip practice, go with your kid and get involved, i promise you, both will benefit. just remember your own advice it's supposed to be FUN!

I don't think my kids would wrestle if it wasn't fun for them. THEY choose when to go to practice and what tournaments they want to go to. We learned the hard way. I don't know why everybody is getting upset about kids practicing outside of practice. Every other sport they do it. How many pick-up games of football, baseball, softball, etc. have you done with your kids? I know we have. It's for fun, but it is also giving them extra practice. There is no difference. My two kids, one boy and one girl, wrestle all the time in the living room. Granted it may not be legal moves all the time...lol. But still, there is no difference. I have to agree with both Greg and Jeff.

amen i still play pick up games with my nephew and his friends, they are 9&10 years old. they learn while we are playing, then we go to practice and fine tune. i just can't believe sportsfan is doing anything but acting like a giant spoon. sorry sportsfan you just don't show any REAL sincerity.